Islam: A Religion of Lies...

[Aquila]

It is written...

Revelation 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

The nature of the false prophet. He presents himself as a lamb, a man of peace... but he speaks like a dragon. His words are a destructive web of lies.

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

(Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It is written...

Revelation 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

The nature of the false prophet. He presents himself as a lamb, a man of peace... but he speaks like a dragon. His words are a destructive web of lies.

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

(Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

Sound like the catholic doctrine of the merciful lie.
that one can lie as long as something good comes from that lie.
that is why you can not trust anything that Catholics say, for they are permitted to lie.

[Walks_in_islam]

You say it is a religion of lies.

Point them out.

After you are done, we will start discussing "lies of the UPC". This should be fun.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You say it is a religion of lies.

Point them out.

After you are done, we will start discussing "lies of the UPC". This should be fun.

LOL Aquila IS NOT UPC. BTW tit for tat will not get you out of the fact that Islam is a religion of lies.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

LOL Aquila IS NOT UPC. BTW tit for tat will not get you out of the fact that Islam is a religion of lies.

Good point. Tit for tat is pretty fruitless. Tell me. After so many pages of this can you truly claim intellectual honesty with ministerial handling of the passages in the bible?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Good point. Tit for tat is pretty fruitless. Tell me. After so many pages of this can you truly claim intellectual honesty with ministerial handling of the passages in the bible?

LOL, well, I'm afraid to tell you that if you can claim intellectual honesty with the Qur'an, then you definitely can do the same with the bible. I would also like to point out, that if many of so called Muslims can misunderstand the Qur'an and become deathly terroristic about it, then I suppose some so called Christians can do the same with the bible. I also suppose that there are some intellectually honest Mormons when it comes to the Book of Mormons.

Here is the kicker though, with Mormonism you have only 1 prophet that claims he is the sole prophet of his time. Thus 1 man started this religion. With Islam you only have the word of 1 man as well who also claims to be a prophet that starts a new religion. It would seem that the start of 2 new religions were started by one single man that never had a witness with them to claim that their faith was the new valid one.

Whenever the prophets of the bible had anything to say from God, they always had someone else to witness or back up the claim. Jesus was one man as well, but He had 12 disciples. How many disciples did Joseph Smith have? What about Mohammed? When you compare the integrity of Joseph Smith and Mohammed with that of Christ then that is where you see where the lie comes from.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Whenever the prophets of the bible had anything to say from God, they always had someone else to witness or back up the claim. Jesus was one man as well, but He had 12 disciples. How many disciples did Joseph Smith have? What about Mohammed? When you compare the integrity of Joseph Smith and Mohammed with that of Christ then that is where you see where the lie comes from.

Don't forget John the baptist, as well.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

LOL, well, I'm afraid to tell you that if you can claim intellectual honesty with the Qur'an, then you definitely can do the same with the bible. I would also like to point out, that if many of so called Muslims can misunderstand the Qur'an and become deathly terroristic about it, then I suppose some so called Christians can do the same with the bible. I also suppose that there are some intellectually honest Mormons when it comes to the Book of Mormons.

Here is the kicker though, with Mormonism you have only 1 prophet that claims he is the sole prophet of his time. Thus 1 man started this religion. With Islam you only have the word of 1 man as well who also claims to be a prophet that starts a new religion. It would seem that the start of 2 new religions were started by one single man that never had a witness with them to claim that their faith was the new valid one.

Whenever the prophets of the bible had anything to say from God, they always had someone else to witness or back up the claim. Jesus was one man as well, but He had 12 disciples. How many disciples did Joseph Smith have? What about Mohammed? When you compare the integrity of Joseph Smith and Mohammed with that of Christ then that is where you see where the lie comes from.

I believe that Jesus was the exception not the rule in this regard.

The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah—the which We have sent by inspiration to thee—and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein:...

—Quran, sura 42 (Ash-Shura), ayah 13

How many disciples did Abraham have? Who was with Moses at the burning bush? How many disciples did Noah have? How many did Jonah have?

All are referenced in the Quran. Are you suggesting that Islam is a brand new stand-alone unique set of religious principles?

I need to smack Pliny around a bit. We will discuss however.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You say it is a religion of lies.

Point them out.

After you are done, we will start discussing "lies of the UPC". This should be fun.

Aquila is not UPC that I am aware of, so you'd be beating at the wind

[Pliny]

Lets not forget the "Al-Khansa brigade" and how "peaceful" this evil is.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/10...tcmp=obnetwork