When is prayer NOT effective?

shazeep · #1 02-13-2014, 10:17 AM

Believe it or not, there are many times in one's personal walk when prayer is not indicated by Scripture as the primary device for "solving" one's problems! While this of course does not mean that an attitude of prayer is not essential in prolly every moment or situation, I think believers are taught a very amputated point of view about prayer, while conversely also an expanded one; lots of corporate prayer for things (that i don't find reflected in Scripture) where often a different 'device' (from the pattern shown us in the tabernacle, hint hint) is indicated. I'll come back and develop this later if no one helps.

justlookin · #2 02-13-2014, 10:28 AM

Prayer isn't effective when the prayer conflicts with the will of God, IMO. The issue then becomes one of how does one know the will of God?

I guess just scatter prayer out there and hope some takes root and produces.

shazeep · #3 02-13-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justlookin

Prayer isn't effective when the prayer conflicts with the will of God, IMO. The issue then becomes one of how does one know the will of God?

I guess just scatter prayer out there and hope some takes root and produces.

well, produces what? what are you expecting from your prayers; or what have you been taught to expect prayer to be efficacious for? Also your 'hope' there does not sound like 'confident expectation' to me--which believe me, i'm familiar with, that rather hopeless version of hope.

that is why i've been on about 'prayer' for the last week or so; having seen the (death-centered) Christianity we are provided in the West, initially a couple of years ago, i am just now seeing how the ptb in that area naturally would not want 'dead' Christians to have access to the still functional, and very powerful, problem solving devices that God has provided.

we largely pray to God as santa claus now, imo, and then either get discouraged, or invent some reason (wasn't in God's will) why the prayer was ineffective. please don't feel isolated here, as i'm doing the same thing! But really, the verse does not say "Whoever says to this mountain, after first verifying that it is in God's will..."

A239 · #4 02-13-2014, 10:37 AM

When casting out demons, as Jesus said, requires fasting and prayer. Sometimes prayer isn't enough. Deny your flesh from what it wants not just food altogether, as Daniel did, so that we show submission to what God wants.

shazeep · #5 02-13-2014, 12:04 PM

well--just on the fly here, i won't really have time until this evening--there are many indications, if not outright directives, of God's will for problem solving devices for a believer. The tabernacle is given for a pattern for them.

We are told specifically--for instance--that prayers for relief from one's government will not be heard; and the one about not bothering to pray for someone experiencing the consequences of the sin unto death is more well-known, although possibly poorly understood today...

A239 · #6 02-13-2014, 12:07 PM

What does it say about fornication? Flee it. Not to pray it out of your life, but to actually run from it.

shazeep · #7 02-13-2014, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobSauceda

What does it say about fornication? Flee it. Not to pray it out of your life, but to actually run from it.

Ah, now we're starting to get to the point here--i think that one is the door.

A239 · #8 02-13-2014, 01:18 PM

As well as youthful lusts.

A239 · #9 02-13-2014, 01:32 PM

As crazy as this may sound, a friend of mine jumped from a tree and accidentally landed on my dogs tail. (My friend WAS Methodist, and little bit on the heavy side.) I said, "dude, you just crushed my dogs tail!" And I ran over to my dog as she was whimpering. I held her tail in my hand, and I could feel where it was broken. I told him, "we are about to pray for my dog. He said, "what? Why are we gonna pray for a dog? That's stupid." I said, "bro, you just broke my dogs tail, and your gonna help me pray for it. Now grab her tail right here and start prayin' that God will heal her" we started praying and he looks up at me and says, "holy sshhh..........! Dude! I felt the bones come back together! O my god! O my god! O my god! That was hecka crazy!" I said, " wanna go to church with me Sunday? He said yes but it was a month or two before he actually came lol

justlookin · #10 02-13-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobSauceda

As crazy as this may sound, a friend of mine jumped from a tree and accidentally landed on my dogs tail. (My friend WAS Methodist, and little bit on the heavy side.) I said, "dude, you just crushed my dogs tail!" And I ran over to my dog as she was whimpering. I held her tail in my hand, and I could feel where it was broken. I told him, "we are about to pray for my dog. He said, "what? Why are we gonna pray for a dog? That's stupid." I said, "bro, you just broke my dogs tail, and your gonna help me pray for it. Now grab her tail right here and start prayin' that God will heal her" we started praying and he looks up at me and says, "holy sshhh..........! Dude! I felt the bones come back together! O my god! O my god! O my god! That was hecka crazy!" I said, " wanna go to church with me Sunday? He said yes but it was a month or two before he actually came lol

It's not that far from Sikeston to Memphis. You should go to a place called St. Jude Hospital, they have a tremendous need for you there.