Is There A Difference In?

[Miss Scarlett]

A Pastor teaching a standard of Holiness.....or
A Pastor teaching on a Holiness standard of dress?

[KeptByTheWord]

I believe PRINCIPLES need to be taught, and then allow the husband/wife team in their home to properly apply those principles in their home. It makes each of us responsible to the LORD for our holiness, and not to a man/group/organization.

[Sasha]

I believe that the command was for us to 'be ye holy as I am holy'. Jesus commanded us to love God and love our neighbor. How else was Jesus holy in doing more than that? I don't recall that His holiness has anything to do with what He was wearing at any time. Nor do I see that in any scripture anywhere, whether OT or NT.

Peter preached about attitudes. I believe if our attitude is right and we have love for one another, we won't fail in being holy. There doesn't need to be a list of do's and don'ts.

Ever wonder how UPC women might be dressing if someone didn't tell them how? I say this because there isn't a list in the Bible that states how women should dress, or men either. And it's really no different than other groups that have a laundry list for their members, whether they are LDS, Amish, Mennonite, Muslim, or cults like Rama Bahera. They all have Bible to prove it.

[KeptByTheWord]

I've never yet found the 'scripture' that equates holiness with a piece of clothing, or taking it one step further.... salvation based on one's physical clothing...

Anyone?

[Maritha]

Wait a minute. There is a standard and it is guided by our spiritual growth in the Lord.
It not only says be ye holy for I am holy, but it is written also
to come out from among them
they will know you are my people ....because you keep my laws
I the Lord thy God am One
I will be your God and you will be my people.
When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?
I have never seen you before, but I should be able to tell who you are.
Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Maritha

Wait a minute. There is a standard and it is guided by our spiritual growth in the Lord.
It not only says be ye holy for I am holy, but it is written also
to come out from among them
they will know you are my people ....because you keep my laws
I the Lord thy God am One
I will be your God and you will be my people.
When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?
I have never seen you before, but I should be able to tell who you are.
Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

Great points

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by Maritha

Wait a minute. There is a standard and it is guided by our spiritual growth in the Lord.
It not only says be ye holy for I am holy, but it is written also
to come out from among them
they will know you are my people ....because you keep my laws
I the Lord thy God am One
I will be your God and you will be my people.
When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?
I have never seen you before, but I should be able to tell who you are.
Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

Yes Maritha, I have had someone do this, and I have been called a sanctified Lady, A young man from Mexico which I had never seen said to me " You Christian, Right " and other instances in which I will not go into, but I felt blessed to be recognized as a Christian and not a religious person. I like your response. Thank's

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Maritha

Wait a minute. There is a standard and it is guided by our spiritual growth in the Lord.
It not only says be ye holy for I am holy, but it is written also
to come out from among them
they will know you are my people ....because you keep my laws
I the Lord thy God am One
I will be your God and you will be my people.
When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?
I have never seen you before, but I should be able to tell who you are.
Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

You have made the usual OP points regarding standards, without a single verse here that correlates holiness with clothing. Please search the scriptures, and supply just ONE scripture that equates holiness with outward clothing. Just one.

To address your points ....
1. "It not only says be ye holy for I am holy".
HOW are we to be holy like God, if God is a spirit? Does God wear clothing? Please answer this question.

2. "When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?"

Jesus said this about your point, John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another, by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER."

These words are from Jesus himself.... the way people should know who we are is by our love one to another.... he never said a word about clothing, and He certainly could have... but He didn't. Think about this! How you treat those around you is how you demonstrate that you are a disciple of Jesus! Not a word here about clothing.

And like a couple of others have pointed out... why is the need to look different from the world always on the woman? Do not men need to look different somehow as well?

3. Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

Yes, Maritha, I don't look the part of a typical OP lady most of the time, although if I choose to, I can certainly put my hair up in a bun, put on a dress, and look like a OP lady. But I have been dressed wearing slacks, light makeup, a touch of jewelry, and have had strangers ask me where I attend church, have witnessed to many, many people ask me to pray for them. You see, it is the spirit that flows through me that lets people know that there is something about me that is different, and it is the SPIRIT of God that their spirit bears witness to, not my clothing.

I certainly wouldn't wear purple hair, or a ring in my lip, or any other such punk nonsense. Women can look just as modest in a pair of slacks as a skirt, and to be sure, I've seen a lot of women look very inappropriate in a skirt, and this in most OP churches....

I recognize the mindset that you have, and it is difficult after being taught these things for many years to look at someone and think that because they have a pair of slacks on that they must not be saved.

But according to the words of Jesus, what matters most is what is on the inside of our heart first, and that is how men will know that we are HIS disciples, by our love for Him, and for one another.

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

You have made the usual OP points regarding standards, without a single verse here that correlates holiness with clothing. Please search the scriptures, and supply just ONE scripture that equates holiness with outward clothing. Just one.

To address your points ....
1. "It not only says be ye holy for I am holy".
HOW are we to be holy like God, if God is a spirit? Does God wear clothing? Please answer this question.

2. "When people look at you, do they have to wonder or guess who you are?"

Jesus said this about your point, John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another, by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER."

These words are from Jesus himself.... the way people should know who we are is by our love one to another.... he never said a word about clothing, and He certainly could have... but He didn't. Think about this! How you treat those around you is how you demonstrate that you are a disciple of Jesus! Not a word here about clothing.

And like a couple of others have pointed out... why is the need to look different from the world always on the woman? Do not men need to look different somehow as well?

3. Has a a stranger ever approached you and said, "I can tell you walk with the Lord." Has anyone ever cried on your shoulder and told you their story and ask for prayer, without knowing your name. They won't do that if you have an ring in your lip, too short skirt or purple hair. There is a difference. holiness is reflected outside. Holiness should be your apostolic life. being saved is for life.

Yes, Maritha, I don't look the part of a typical OP lady most of the time, although if I choose to, I can certainly put my hair up in a bun, put on a dress, and look like a OP lady. But I have been dressed wearing slacks, light makeup, a touch of jewelry, and have had strangers ask me where I attend church, have witnessed to many, many people ask me to pray for them. You see, it is the spirit that flows through me that lets people know that there is something about me that is different, and it is the SPIRIT of God that their spirit bears witness to, not my clothing.

I certainly wouldn't wear purple hair, or a ring in my lip, or any other such punk nonsense. Women can look just as modest in a pair of slacks as a skirt, and to be sure, I've seen a lot of women look very inappropriate in a skirt, and this in most OP churches....

I recognize the mindset that you have, and it is difficult after being taught these things for many years to look at someone and think that because they have a pair of slacks on that they must not be saved.

But according to the words of Jesus, what matters most is what is on the inside of our heart first, and that is how men will know that we are HIS disciples, by our love for Him, and for one another.

When the inside is made right, He WILL work on the OUTWARD part too. Isn't this correct.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

When the inside is made right, He WILL work on the OUTWARD part too. Isn't this correct.

Yes, which is were the emphasis needs to be when holiness is being taught