The Security of the Believer

PastorTLArt · #1 02-02-2013, 11:22 PM

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the doctrine of "eternal security".

I know the UPC, ALJC, PAW, ect..... stance, I want your own PERSONAL stance.

Can a truly born-again believer lose their salvation?

If so, how and why?

Im not debating it or trying to stir up a storm, just thought I would get opinions.

I personally believe the doctrine of eternal security and Im sure there are other Apostolics out there that do too. Just state your opinion and use what ever scripture you need to use to support it but PLEASE dont bash anyone that post in support of the doctrine just as I ask that no one in support bash those that are not. Don't turn it into a debate, lets just state our personal belief and leave it at that.

Thanks!

seekerman · #2 02-02-2013, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorTLArt

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the doctrine of "eternal security".

I know the UPC, ALJC, PAW, ect..... stance, I want your own PERSONAL stance.

Can a truly born-again believer lose their salvation?

If so, how and why?

Im not debating it or trying to stir up a storm, just thought I would get opinions.

I personally believe the doctrine of eternal security and Im sure there are other Apostolics out there that do too. Just state your opinion and use what ever scripture you need to use to support it but PLEASE dont bash anyone that post in support of the doctrine just as I ask that no one in support bash those that are not. Don't turn it into a debate, lets just state our personal belief and leave it at that.

Thanks!

This is going to involve the redemptive blood of the Lamb of God so I doubt you're going to get much discussion from the 'apostolics' on the forum other than to reject the belief in eternal security. The blood and redemption isn't a very popular subject.

Personally, I believe in eternal security.

Praxeas · #3 02-03-2013, 03:03 AM

Yes they can lose it

Lack of faith

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

Praxeas · #4 02-04-2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes they can lose it

Lack of faith

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

Bump

supertone · #5 02-03-2013, 04:10 AM

I think that you can lose your salvation if you don't want it any more. ie let life get in the way of your walk. I'm unsure of the stance of the UPC or ALJC but I've heard arguments that those people were never really saved.

I honestly think that the people that Jesus will draw to him are the ones who will want to worship him into eternity. Worldly people don't fit that mould. If there are people who just want to get to Heaven because it's better than the alternative, they may be in for a shock as their reasoning is self centered. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way which leads to life.

Lafon · #6 02-03-2013, 05:14 AM

I do NOT agree with the non-scriptural teachings of "eternal security", also known as "once saved, always saved." The following Scriptural passages provide the support for my beliefs about the matter:

"The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead." - Proverbs 21:16, KJV

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6, KJV

There are others, of course, but these two alone provide me sufficient cause to reject "eternal security" teachings.

Godsdrummer · #7 02-03-2013, 10:00 AM

This is one that can go back and forth depending on the understanding of eternal security.

Too many times legalism teaches that one falls from grace when one fails to fulfill the legalistic teachings of their individual group.

The fact is the primary falling from grace came when one returned to the legalism of the keeping of the law and oricles from which they had come out of.

Hence is the parridox, yes one can loose ones relationship with God. When you trust more in your own efforts than grace and the work of the cross. But this comes from an improper veiw of what salvation truly is.

I don't believe salvation is the striving in this life to gain eternity. Salvation is being reconciled to God through Christ in this present life. As long as one walks after the spirit in this life in communion with God they are eternaly saved.

Brake that communion, and what do you have? Nothing. We are told very explicitly what things will not enter the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here is where I see the problem, too many times we dwell on sin or what we think is sin. When Paul tells us that if we walk after the spirit we will not lust after the flesh.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

How shall this be?

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Much more can be said, but I beleive the bottom line is that we can rest in the security of Grace knowing our salvation is sure as long as we walk after the spirit. By this our salvation is sure.
One cannot walk after the flesh and have the spirit, walk after the spirit and you cannot walk after the flesh. They that have not the spirit are none of his.

Sheila · #8 02-03-2013, 03:45 PM

Ephesians 2:8--For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9--Not of works lest any man boast.
James 2:24--Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

These things sound like contradictions. I'll search the scriptures--on the fence right now. Sounds to me like we are saved by grace but expected then to drop our sins and walk in the ways of Jesus or we would THEN be held accountable and receive punishment or damnation at judgement. Some will awaken to eternal life and some to eternal damnation.
Yeshua Bless You

DaveC519 · #9 02-03-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorTLArt

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the doctrine of "eternal security".

I know the UPC, ALJC, PAW, ect..... stance, I want your own PERSONAL stance.

Can a truly born-again believer lose their salvation?

If so, how and why?

Im not debating it or trying to stir up a storm, just thought I would get opinions.

I personally believe the doctrine of eternal security and Im sure there are other Apostolics out there that do too. Just state your opinion and use what ever scripture you need to use to support it but PLEASE dont bash anyone that post in support of the doctrine just as I ask that no one in support bash those that are not. Don't turn it into a debate, lets just state our personal belief and leave it at that.

Thanks!

Hello PastorTLArt,

Great topic! But I do have a question: how do you personally define the doctrine of eternal security? Thanks!