Humility and pride revisited...

[Barb]

Just before the old place went over the river so to speak, someone...I think it was Prax, started a thread on the subject of humility and pride. As I recall, it was still on page one, so I thought perhaps we could revisit this subject.

I will begin by rerunning a few quotes by the excellent book Sis. Felicity suggested to me a little over a year ago. The book is Seeking The Face Of God by Gary L. Thomas, and he writes of knowing God in a more perfect way. It is an excellent description of true inner holiness and humility and I highly recommend it.

Let us begin with an excerpt for your discussion and consideration...

He quotes the 15th century philosopher, Blaise Pascal, Knowing God without knowing our own wretchedness makes for pride. Knowing our own wretchedness without knowing God makes for despair. Knowing Jesus Christ strikes the balance because He shows us both God and our own wretchedness.

Mr. Thomas writes, We can pretend we are humble just as we can pretend we are holy, but true humility cannot be manufactured. Humility is rooted in truth, not pretense. Therefore, we need an objective standard by which we can judge ourselves, or better, allow God to judge us...

Humility is at root a celebration of our freedom in Christ; we are freed from having to make a certain impression or create a false front. Humility places within us a desire for people to know us as we are, not as we hope to be and not as we think they want us to be or even as we think we should be. Real growth cannot begin until we come to this point.

Originally Posted by Barb

Just before the old place went over the river so to speak, someone...I think it was Prax, started a thread on the subject of humility and pride. As I recall, it was still on page one, so I thought perhaps we could revisit this subject.

I will begin by rerunning a few quotes by the excellent book Sis. Felicity suggested to me a little over a year ago. The book is Seeking The Face Of God by Gary L. Thomas, and he writes of knowing God in a more perfect way. It is an excellent description of true inner holiness and humility and I highly recommend it.

Let us begin with an excerpt for your discussion and consideration...

He quotes the 15th century philosopher, Blaise Pascal, Knowing God without knowing our own wretchedness makes for pride. Knowing our own wretchedness without knowing God makes for despair. Knowing Jesus Christ strikes the balance because He shows us both God and our own wretchedness.

Mr. Thomas writes, We can pretend we are humble just as we can pretend we are holy, but true humility cannot be manufactured. Humility is rooted in truth, not pretense. Therefore, we need an objective standard by which we can judge ourselves, or better, allow God to judge us...

Humility is at root a celebration of our freedom in Christ; we are freed from having to make a certain impression or create a false front. Humility places within us a desire for people to know us as we are, not as we hope to be and not as we think they want us to be or even as we think we should be. Real growth cannot begin until we come to this point.

I agree with the quotes.

I think there is some misunderstanding on the part of many about pride. The Bible ALWAYS refers to pride as sin and NEVER presents a "good" kind of pride. To say that we're "proud" of this or that person or accomplishment is sin because pride is always sin. One can be pleased with this or that person or accomplishment but we must never be proud.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Chan

I agree with the quotes.

I think there is some misunderstanding on the part of many about pride. The Bible ALWAYS refers to pride as sin and NEVER presents a "good" kind of pride. To say that we're "proud" of this or that person or accomplishment is sin because pride is always sin. One can be pleased with this or that person or accomplishment but we must never be proud.

Hmmm...

[Praxeas]

This is a good thread. I'd like to see more quotes

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is a good thread. I'd like to see more quotes

Thank you, Elder...I'm just revisiting what someone else started.

Once our self-view is no longer tied to our own worth but to the worth ascribed to us in God, we can readily admit our shortcomings and begin working on them while we are encouraged that we are not alone in our failings.

While some of us may lack an accurate understanding of our true selves, others know their true selves so well that they spend all their energy trying to put up a false front, thinking some people wouldn't accept them if they knew the truth. This false piety is devastating to true spiritual growth.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Barb

Thank you, Elder

Originally Posted by Chan

I agree with the quotes.

I think there is some misunderstanding on the part of many about pride. The Bible ALWAYS refers to pride as sin and NEVER presents a "good" kind of pride. To say that we're "proud" of this or that person or accomplishment is sin because pride is always sin. One can be pleased with this or that person or accomplishment but we must never be proud.

You are actually saying that we should not appear to be, or place ourselves, above others or be/appear haughty, correct? But, can we feel pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable? What about having or showing self-respect? May we be full of vigor and spirit? How about treating someone or oneself generously - is that permitted?

Originally Posted by Felidae

You are actually saying that we should not appear to be, or place ourselves, above others or be/appear haughty, correct? But, can we feel pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable? What about having or showing self-respect? May we be full of vigor and spirit? How about treating someone or oneself generously - is that permitted?

The point I was trying to make was that what you are calling "pride" (the biblical definition) differs from what others here are calling "pride" (the definition which comes from the dictionary). I don't believe anyone here places themselves above others in a haughty or arrogant way. But they feel pleasure over a thing or person that they regard highly.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Felidae

The point I was trying to make was that what you are calling "pride" (the biblical definition) differs from what others here are calling "pride" (the definition which comes from the dictionary). I don't believe anyone here places themselves above others in a haughty or arrogant way. But they feel pleasure over a thing or person that they regard highly.

One of my first posts on FCF was about this and self-esteem. Roxie ate my lunch! She was very against any type of pride or self-esteem.

Maybe it's the attitude behind the word, but I'm proud of my kids and I don't think that's a sin.

Originally Posted by rgcraig

One of my first posts on FCF was about this and self-esteem. Roxie ate my lunch! She was very against any type of pride or self-esteem.

Maybe it's the attitude behind the word, but I'm proud of my kids and I don't think that's a sin.

I'm proud of my kids, too. But I'm not haughty or arrogant. I feel generous & pleasure towards them! Thus, I'm "proud."