Tongues, boundaries, rules

[Big Dummy]

Have you ever visited a church and ran into odd situations related to tongues?

One person would give a long speech in tongues and the interpretation would be very short or a short message in tongues produces a long interpretation?

Someone takes you in the back room and says now repeat after me "jaba ..." called "priming the pump".

You know a second language and you never hear that language during a tongues worship section.

Your unbelieving friends speaks other languages and they never hear their native language spoken.

Nothing you hear even resembles a language of anykind.


You are open to any of God's gifts and you don't want to fake it, nor do you desire to "quench" the Spirit.

Where or What are the boundries and rules for determining if the tongues you are hearing are of God?

[RandyWayne]

There have been plenty of times where I have heard tongues spoken and it actually resembled something that had some grammar to it but then there have been many others where the person is doing nothing more then going "la la la la la la la la".

As far as the length of a message versus the translation goes, this is something that Hollywood has been making fun of for most of a century. Just watch some old Loony Toons cartoon where Bugs talks to some natives. He talks in their language for about 10-12 seconds and the subtitle says "Hello!", then he grunts one or two short words and a whole paragraph of subtitles appear. While it is funny there is actually SOME truth to this based on how much meaning is assigned to a word. Sometimes one word in Japanese does take a whole sentence to say in English.

[KWSS1976]

Yea I have yet to hear it done as it was on the day of pentecost,not to mention all the tongues from behind the pulpit...It clearly states not to speak in tongues unless someone understands what yo are saying and I have no idea what anyone says when they speak in tongues which goes against scripture specially in Acts when it was clearly understood by the onlookers..

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yea I have yet to hear it done as it was on the day of pentecost,not to mention all the tongues from behind the pulpit...It clearly states not to speak in tongues unless someone understands what yo are saying and I have no idea what anyone says when they speak in tongues which goes against scripture specially in Acts when it was clearly understood by the onlookers..

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I guess my biggest beef is the tongues and how improperly they are used in the church setting

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I share your beef.

I like beef : )
but see no reason now to prune a dead tree,
if that is in fact what it is.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yea I have yet to hear it done as it was on the day of pentecost,not to mention all the tongues from behind the pulpit...It clearly states not to speak in tongues unless someone understands what yo are saying and I have no idea what anyone says when they speak in tongues which goes against scripture specially in Acts when it was clearly understood by the onlookers..

Actually, the operative word in I Corinthians 14:5 is "rather".

I Corinthians 14:5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."

The Greek definition for "rather" is "mallon: more, in a greater degree.

So, the passage is not forbidding to speak in tongues, it is continuing the instruction that began in verse one, expounds more in verses 12, 13, 39 and 40, when it says:

I Corinthians 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

14:12 "Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church."

14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14:39 "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."

14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

Desire, seek, excel, covet, and pray for spiritual gifts, but forbid not to speak in tongues. Do everything decent and in order.

It's really very simple. It's only ridiculous when the gifts are not in operation and I believe that many do not understand that they can pray to receive them.

[Titus2woman]

14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

I will not give examples of things I have seen in Pentecostal churches lest I be accused of mocking other's worship... But 'decently and in order' would in no wise be used to describe them... and many of these involved 'tongues'.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

I will not give examples of things I have seen in Pentecostal churches lest I be accused of mocking other's worship... But 'decently and in order' would in no wise be used to describe them... and many of these involved 'tongues'.

I am very sure we could put our heads together and share stories. People are people. Some are more emotional and some are more stubborn and some are more... and some are more...

But, at the end of the day, we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Word gives us instruction and the privilege of participating in the NT church, which is a spiritual body. Nothing could be more grand than that, IMO.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Big Dummy

Have you ever visited a church and ran into odd situations related to tongues?

One person would give a long speech in tongues and the interpretation would be very short or a short message in tongues produces a long interpretation?

As I have learned a little Spanish and heard other languages spoken, I can say that there a times even when translating, much less interpreting, that it will take several words to give a clear meaning to one in the original language. Also there are words that do not translate either well or at all, which could lead to a longer discourse.

Someone takes you in the back room and says now repeat after me "jaba ..." called "priming the pump".

This is a sin. A person is deceiving another into believing that they have something which they do not. I have heard of this practice and detest it. I ask people, after I hear them claim to have spoken in tongues, if they were taught how to do so. This helps me deal with them more effectively. I know a Catholic gentleman who, on his own, prayed through. When we were discussing it, another man asked if it could be taught. We replied in unison to the negative.

You know a second language and you never hear that language during a tongues worship section.

Your unbelieving friends speaks other languages and they never hear their native language spoken.

This is the same question rephrased. The issue here is that you have more hundreds of languages that have been spoken though history and the present. Each language has multiple dialects. An example would be English. Canada, Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, the United States, New Zealand are all English speaking places. However, depending where you visit, you will hear a different dialect of English. In Canada and the United States, there are subdialects depending on which part of the nation being discussed.

This is true for any language that you wish to discuss. Therefore, hearing one individual speak in a language or dialect that I or my friends might recognize should be understood to be remote.

Nothing you hear even resembles a language of anykind.

This is a horse of another color. However, having heard people speak in Chinese or Japanese, I can say that not all languages sound like the Latin/German based languages that we are familiar with. This is not to say that there are not pathetic fakes (we have seen them).

You are open to any of God's gifts and you don't want to fake it, nor do you desire to "quench" the Spirit.

Where or What are the boundries and rules for determining if the tongues you are hearing are of God?

This gets into a whole different topic, and I will endeavor to reply in more detail in a separate post.

Originally Posted by PASTOR'S WIFE

Just for clarification: Translation and Interpretation are 2 different things. Translation would be word for word but interpretation could be condensed or lengthened to relay what God has spoken to the church. So interpretation of tongues is what is done in most churches. God uses our mouth and our vocabularily to get the message across.

This is very true. Bro. Bernard's book on the gifts of the Spirit is excellent when bringing this out and explaining it.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am very sure we could put our heads together and share stories. People are people. Some are more emotional and some are more stubborn and some are more... and some are more...

But, at the end of the day, we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Word gives us instruction and the privilege of participating in the NT church, which is a spiritual body. Nothing could be more grand than that, IMO.

I have heard and seen my share of the stories that could be told. Some of them are very sad, some are horrifying, and others more amusing. However, all of them should be taken for our instruction that we must be very careful and sensitive to the Spirit when we are being used of God.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Actually, the operative word in I Corinthians 14:5 is "rather".



The Greek definition for "rather" is "mallon: more, in a greater degree.

So, the passage is not forbidding to speak in tongues, it is continuing the instruction that began in verse one, expounds more in verses 12, 13, 39 and 40, when it says:



Desire, seek, excel, covet, and pray for spiritual gifts, but forbid not to speak in tongues. Do everything decent and in order.

It's really very simple. It's only ridiculous when the gifts are not in operation and I believe that many do not understand that they can pray to receive them.

Well said.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...It's really very simple. It's only ridiculous when the gifts are not in operation and I believe that many do not understand that they can pray to receive them.

Amen. You illuminate the proper path, imo.

Originally Posted by Jay

...This gets into a whole different topic, and I will endeavor to reply in more detail in a separate post...
This is very true. Bro. Bernard's book on the gifts of the Spirit is excellent when bringing this out and explaining it.

Cool, I'll be reading; and I missed the ref for this book, could you name it again, ty.