We say that the father, son and holy spirit are one person. I was trying to understand what is it that makes us a person? what is it that the father, son and hg have in common? what is their essence? we can say they have the same character and attributes. What else do they have in common? What is there essence?
I heard mike bickle say there are 4 god is's in the bible. God is love. God is holy. God is fire and God is light.
Since fire and light are not characteristics, can we say that the essence of god is love and holiness? "Is there any other way to describe the essence of god? what is your opinion or comment?
For god to be both love and holy, these characteristics must be in balance. So i think a natural outcome of this balance is justice. so we can naturally say, god is just.
I am going to stick with what the Bible says. God has many attributes and has revealed Himself in many ways.
God is a Spirit, that is what He is. There are several Scriptures that claim this, and thus His essence is spiritual.
However, He has multiple attributes, as do we. Some of these include love, hate, justice, anger, mercy, wrath, grace, jealousy, joy, justice, and righteousness. However, the greatest attribute in Scripture is His holiness. This one attribute regulates all the others as He deals with man.
There are also many appearances, manifestations as well, such as fire, wings, feathers, etc.
We can finally know approximately what He looks like, because when He came, He came in the form of a man. When we see Him, we will see Him as He would have looked on earth.
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I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
I am going to stick with what the Bible says. God has many attributes and has revealed Himself in many ways.
God is a Spirit, that is what He is. There are several Scriptures that claim this, and thus His essence is spiritual.
However, He has multiple attributes, as do we. Some of these include love, hate, justice, anger, mercy, wrath, grace, jealousy, joy, justice, and righteousness. However, the greatest attribute in Scripture is His holiness. This one attribute regulates all the others as He deals with man.
There are also many appearances, manifestations as well, such as fire, wings, feathers, etc.
We can finally know approximately what He looks like, because when He came, He came in the form of a man. When we see Him, we will see Him as He would have looked on earth.
i think love and holiness are equal. if god were mainly holy that would leave little room for mercy. imho.
i think love and holiness are equal. if god were mainly holy that would leave little room for mercy. imho.
All of His attributes have an opposite characteristic with the exception of His holiness. Love is balanced by hate, mercy and justice are also juxtaposed to one another, righteousness and grace, holiness is the one aspect for which there is no corresponding attribute. Thus it is also the one that provides the balance for all of the others.
God loves men, but He hates sin. All of his attributes are intended to draw man back into a state of holiness. Only God can impart holiness to people.
__________________
I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
just thought of all the names of god as a clue to determine his characteristics. can anyone list them here please. i would like to view them, but don't have them handy. your post jfrog made me think of this.
Something that exists is ontologically categorized. First something is a "being" (meaning something that exists). Next, a being has "essence", or "what-ness" (an intrinsic and defining attribute). Next, a being has "substance", what it is inherently made of. Next a being has “person”, or a self awareness, a “consciousness”. Next, a being has a "nature". The nature of a being is the expression of it's essence in all given attributes. All of these things define a thing.
Being
Essence
Substance
Person
Nature
Let’s take a rock as an example:
Being: Yes (meaning it does exist)
Essence: Natural
Substance: Material
Person: None
Nature: Mineral, hard, smooth, etc.
Definition: Material being
Let’s take a human being as another example:
Being: Yes
Essence: Human
Substance: Body, soul, spirit
Person: Single self consciousness (thoughts limited by imagination, senses, and memory).
Nature: Human (self centered, self willed, prone to mistakes, imperfect in knowledge, limited in presence, limited in strength, etc.)
Definition: Human being
Let’s look at God now…
Being: Yes (He exists)
Essence: Divine
Substance: Spirit
Person: Limitless self consciousness and awareness
Nature: Limitless in all attributes, Holy (distinct from creation itself in all categories: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc.)
Definition: Divine being
The battleground with regards to Oneness and Trinitarianism is the category of “person” within the being of God. Does God have three eternal, and distinct, divine consciousnesses within His being? This would imply that while God is a single divine being, He consciously exists from eternity on three distinct levels of being (eternal, expressionary, spiritual). Each “consciousness” (person) functions through their given level of being from all eternity and deals with the others independently. In Trinitarianism the issue of eternal transcendence vs. temporal modes of existence is often part of the debate. Thus with regards to God we can say that He is them and they are Him.
In Oneness, God has a single divine consciousness that functions in multiple modes of being. Meaning, should this single consciousness manifest and be projected through a being having a human nature, it will function as the person of God existing as a distinct human being. This becomes a “second mode of being”. In Oneness, the very person of God exists in multiple modes of being, each mode determining God’s behavior. Each mode is also not eternal. For example, God’s human mode of being didn’t begin until the human baby (the man Jesus Christ) was born in Bethlehem. Jesus is essentially God, made a man and projected into time and space, the Son. The Father is God’s primary divine mode of being and continues to exist distinctly from God’s human mode of being, the Son. Therefore you have one person interacting with Himself because one mode of being is absolutely distinct in nature from the other.
So in Trinitarianism we’d define God as follows:
Being: Yes (He exists)
Essence: Divine
Substance: Spirit
Person: Three subsisting eternal and distinct self aware consciousnesses (three “selves”). One serving as transcendent originator, the second being expressed in time and space, the third proceeding in the Spirit.
Nature: Limitless in all attributes, Holy (distinct from creation itself in all categories: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc.)
Definition: Divine being expressed in three persons.
In Oneness we’d define God as follows:
Being: Yes (He exists)
Essence: Divine
Substance: Spirit
Person: A single and eternal self consciousness (one “self”) temporally manifest in multiple modes of being.
Nature: Limitless in all attributes, Holy (distinct from creation itself in all categories: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc.)
Definition: Divine being who is one person, self expressed in multiple modes of being.
Eh, that’s how I’ve come to understand it anyway. There is MUCH debate on over all ontology and possible ontological categories of existence. It’s an issue of philosophy and opinion more than one of science.
As for what is "biblical"... well... every man has to read the Bible and decide for himself... hopefully having grace and love towards those who might disagree.
We say that the father, son and holy spirit are one person. I was trying to understand what is it that makes us a person? what is it that the father, son and hg have in common? what is their essence? we can say they have the same character and attributes. What else do they have in common? What is there essence?
I heard mike bickle say there are 4 god is's in the bible. God is love. God is holy. God is fire and God is light.
Since fire and light are not characteristics, can we say that the essence of god is love and holiness? "Is there any other way to describe the essence of god? what is your opinion or comment?
"Person" simply catagorizes that part of a self aware being that is "self aware", that does the actions of willing or other actions
Nature catagorizes that part of a self aware being that refers to the qualities that person possesses.
For example Person wills, Human persons have a human will/mind. Wills is a verb. Will is a noun
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Hybrid Mode
