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Old 03-19-2011, 04:32 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

I think the biggest difference between what we've often called UCs and those that are not is their emphasis on works. Because of that and their wrong view of those that don't emphasis works, they erroneously accuse any thing that is not UC of all sorts of things ranging from "reprobates" to being ok with sin.

Jesus addressed this error

Mat 23:16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred?

Notice Jesus was correcting their wrong thinking. Their emphasis was on the wrong thing. Jesus called them blind fools. He continues to show how they had a wrong way of viewing things

Mat 23:18 And you say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
Mat 23:20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
Mat 23:21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it.
Mat 23:22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.


This was always the problem with the Phariseeical minded person. They focused on regulations so much they were obsessed with how they can affect their own salvation so much that they even made up their own rules and regulations.

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

The Pharisees were very big on the outward appearances to men. They boasted about how they fasted. They thought they were righteous because they tithed on absolutely everything, but their focus was NOT on what was important according to Jesus, which was justice, mercy and faithfulness. It was their emphasis that was the problem

Mat 23:24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

Jesus again told them they were blind but this time included the fact they were guides. Others followed them and we know they were blind leaders of the blind. Those that followed them, followed them into the ditch.

Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

These people emphasis what can be plainly seen outwardly, seen with the eyes. The look at the cup and they think the cup looks fine. Their emphasis is on the outward not the inward..

The true church had to deal with these kinds of people in their days.
2Co 5:12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart.

Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

See, the problem with those that emphasis rules and regulations is clear, as long as you meet our standards then you must be Holy. But according to Jesus these pharisee's looked the part but inwardly they were spiritual criminals. They appeared Holy. They preached this outward appeal. The even pointed to other men to distract from their own corrupt selves (see the pharisee and the sinner praying at the wall). This is how the wrong emphasis works. Not only do they emphasize the wrong priority, they attempt to feel even more superior and make those that follow them feel that way by railing on those that don't emphasize what they do.

When these people are feeling low or guilty, they emphasize the wrong priority; They preach even harder against others to make themselves feel better all the while inside they are hurting.

Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations--
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch"
Col 2:22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings?
Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Paul was not against works. His priority though was on faith. His priority was on Christ. Those whose priority is not on the outward are not promoting doing what you want. They just realize that Only Christ can clean the inside of the cup. They emphasize Christ and what He can do and their priority is to preach whatever will help you have faith in Christ so that not only will the inside of the cup be clean but the outside will to.

Luk 18:9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt:
Luk 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.'
Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

These that emphasize the wrong priority, do so often at the expense of others and the promotion of themselves. They look down on others who emphasize mercy and faith in Christ as inferior. They point out what the others are doing, all the while what they are really doing is pointing away from their corrupt inner man. As long as we are looking with our eyes we will see a righteous man he hopes and as long as we are focused on looking at others we may never notice that all we are seeing is the outside of the cup and not notice how dirty the inside really is.

Rules and regulations will never clean the inside of the cup, only Christ can do that. While those that emphasize rules and regulations will erroneously charge those that emphasize Christ as sinners who say we can do whatever we want, those that emphasize the inner work of Christ have true works and obedience because of what Christ is doing on the inside.

Preach to me faith. Preach to me something that will affect my inner man to trust in Christ and grow Spiritually, so that my outward man can be clean also!
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2011, 04:38 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

Hmmm. I guess I've been going to the wrong kind of UC church.
That could have been taken from any of several sermons I've heard my pastor preach.
The only thing that I would add is that inside cleansing will be reflected on the outside.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2011, 04:41 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
Hmmm. I guess I've been going to the wrong kind of UC church.
That could have been taken from any of several sermons I've heard my pastor preach.
The only thing that I would add is that inside cleansing will be reflected on the outside.
Im glad to hear that at your church they rarely preach rules and regulations but rather they preach Christ.

BTW that's not an addition. I said that
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:45 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
Hmmm. I guess I've been going to the wrong kind of UC church.
That could have been taken from any of several sermons I've heard my pastor preach.
The only thing that I would add is that inside cleansing will be reflected on the outside.
Or, could it be that you and your church is simply not an example of what Prax is describing? Maybe you're already "one of us?"
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:52 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Or, could it be that you and your church is simply not an example of what Prax is describing? Maybe you're already "one of us?"
They're looking our way!
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:59 PM
hometown guy hometown guy is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
Hmmm. I guess I've been going to the wrong kind of UC church.
That could have been taken from any of several sermons I've heard my pastor preach.
The only thing that I would add is that inside cleansing will be reflected on the outside.
Sounds like my church too.......infact in sounds like most UC churches i have been to.........
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:54 PM
kclee4jc kclee4jc is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
Sounds like my church too.......infact in sounds like most UC churches i have been to.........
I don't particularly care for the label ultra con. i suppose those that use the label to describe us are probably fully aware of the fact that it is not favored by thos of us who take a more conservative stance. I will say that i attend a very conservative church as far as standards go, and standards is a topic that is seldom preached. My pastor spends great time preaching on prayer, soul winning, sacrifice, and relationship with God. Occasionally he will preach on certain standards as he feels need to. I have attended many WPF conferences and i can say that i have met some wonderful, godly ppl who are in love with Jesus Christ. Yes, standards are preached. There is a great emphasis on doctrinal purity and truth. The greatest emphasis in all the services and conferences i have attended have been a love for Jesus Christ and desire to do what pleases him, and most of all, the need for AN INTIMATE AND CONSISTANT PRAYER LIFE! Label us what you will. Perhaps some preach what they do to cover up for what is lacking in other areas..my experience does not testify to this though. I have been introduced to ppl in the last few years that love Jesus and want to do His will. There is a mighty annointing that rests upon these brethren and it testifies to their sincerity.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:26 PM
hometown guy hometown guy is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by kclee4jc View Post
I don't particularly care for the label ultra con. i suppose those that use the label to describe us are probably fully aware of the fact that it is not favored by thos of us who take a more conservative stance. I will say that i attend a very conservative church as far as standards go, and standards is a topic that is seldom preached. My pastor spends great time preaching on prayer, soul winning, sacrifice, and relationship with God. Occasionally he will preach on certain standards as he feels need to. I have attended many WPF conferences and i can say that i have met some wonderful, godly ppl who are in love with Jesus Christ. Yes, standards are preached. There is a great emphasis on doctrinal purity and truth. The greatest emphasis in all the services and conferences i have attended have been a love for Jesus Christ and desire to do what pleases him, and most of all, the need for AN INTIMATE AND CONSISTANT PRAYER LIFE! Label us what you will. Perhaps some preach what they do to cover up for what is lacking in other areas..my experience does not testify to this though. I have been introduced to ppl in the last few years that love Jesus and want to do His will. There is a mighty annointing that rests upon these brethren and it testifies to their sincerity.
I think the problem is that some of more liberal people come to some conservative conferences ( where its more for the saint then the sinner although it’s a good time anytime for someone to get the HG) and that’s what they may hear preached but if they would go to our local assembly they would find that its not preached very often at all
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:48 PM
kclee4jc kclee4jc is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
I think the problem is that some of more liberal people come to some conservative conferences ( where its more for the saint then the sinner although it’s a good time anytime for someone to get the HG) and that’s what they may hear preached but if they would go to our local assembly they would find that its not preached very often at all
That's really a good point. I know in the past that the preaching of standards at conferences has been frowned upon. What I am seeing in more recent fellowship meetings i think is very positive because we are more open and it allows us to be on the same page. It brings us to the same level. I attended East Coast conference in Durham this past year. Of course there was some preaching on standards, however that was not the dominating subject of the conference. 19 received the Holy Ghost. I watched one young lady attend 3 services and watched as the skepticism melted away with each service. In the last service she was in the altar and received the Holy Ghost beautifully. You could see complete transformation on her face. I would like for some of those who criticize our stance to attend some of our services, i am sure that the power of God would convince them of God's favor on what we are doing. His Spirit is leading His church. But the only ones that will hear him will be "those that have an ear".
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:34 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Emphasizing the Wrong Priorities

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Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
I think the problem is that some of more liberal people come to some conservative conferences ( where its more for the saint then the sinner although it’s a good time anytime for someone to get the HG) and that’s what they may hear preached but if they would go to our local assembly they would find that its not preached very often at all
The irony here is that churches that don't preach standards very often, yet still hold them, have been labeled liberal and those pastors that seldom preach standards have been labeled charismatic. I don't understand that
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
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