Greenspan: there goes decades of Ayn Rand

[coadie]

Down the drain.

Alan Shrugged: Greenspan, Ayn Rand and Their God That Failed

"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms."

In other words, whoops—there goes decades of Ayn Rand down the drain.

He must have felt lust for her because she sure didn't have intelligence to offer.

Greenspan and the others urged Congress "to be aware of the potential unintended consequences" of legislation to regulate derivatives.

They got it exactly wrong. Swaps and derivatives ended up undermining, not bolstering, the economy.


Greenspan was stupid. I knew that Goldman Sachs made money rating, underwriting and retail trading.

In a November 5, 2003 letter, signed only by Greenspan, the Fed chair again took a shot at Feinstein's proposal to control derivatives. He noted that "enhanced market discipline" would address concerns about the manipulation of markets.

I am sure America will recover from some of these trillion dollar errors in judgement.

[coadie]

In fact, it was always a matter of ideology for Greenspan, a libertarian champion. In 1963, writing in Rand's "Objectivist" newsletter, he noted, "It is in the self-interest of every businessman to have a reputation for honest dealings and a quality product." Regulation, he maintained, undermines this "superlatively moral system." Self-governance by choice, he said, would be more effective than governance through government. Regulation, Greenspan maintained, was the enemy of freedom: "At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun."

Well, it turns out that at the bottom of the system that Greenspan oversaw for years, there was nothing but a pile of bad paper. And testifying to the House oversight committee, Greenspan, one of the more ideological Washington players of the past few decades, essentially said that Ayn Randism had let him—and the entire world—down. It was truly a God that failed.

Enron
Credit default swaps
AIG

Lack of placing Fannie and freddie under Sarbanes Oxley.
Bernie Madoff celebrated a lack of regulation. How he snuck around ever getting audited beats me.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

Enron
Credit default swaps
AIG

Lack of placing Fannie and freddie under Sarbanes Oxley.
Bernie Madoff celebrated a lack of regulation. How he snuck around ever getting audited beats me.

Whoever you cited here (link please) has an incorrect summary of his words. Should I copy/paste his exact words for you?

Either way, see the prior clip which is Greenspan himself clarifying his thoughts on the subject.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Whoever you cited here (link please) has an incorrect summary of his words. Should I copy/paste his exact words for you?

Either way, see the prior clip which is Greenspan himself clarifying his thoughts on the subject.

So under oath Greenspan tells us the philosophy of Ayn Rand is to be avoided.

Shoots your pet theories doesn't it?

Ayn Rand wrote fiction and offers no actual numbers or maths to work with.

The former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, has conceded that the global financial crisis has exposed a "mistake" in the free market ideology which guided his 18-year stewardship of US monetary policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...erve-greenspan

During a feisty exchange on Capitol Hill, he told the House oversight committee that he regretted his opposition to regulatory curbs on certain types of financial derivatives which have left banks on Wall Street and in the Square Mile facing billions of dollars worth of liabilities.

"

said Greenspan.

The economic data says he was wrong.

Here is the problem between Greenspan and the liberal libertarians that cling on him. He is dishonest and self contradictory. He says he opposes regulation and applies stout regulation of interest rates because he tries to choke inflation. His crazy over emphasis of fear and control of inflation was a cause of restricted growth.
Most Libertarians aren't sharp enough to see this.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by coadie

So under oath Greenspan tells us the philosophy of Ayn Rand is to be avoided. ...

Your "analysis" is bizarre as usual, coadie.

Greenspan's appeal to banks and other institutions "following their own self interests" was simply an attempt at an analogy on his part. What you have failed to see (and what Greenspan at least appears to have missed) is that the trading that goes on within "the banks" is done by individuals who may or may not have the bank's best interest in mind.

Rolling the dice to get large yields when the market is good will provide huge bonuses for the bank's traders. Presumably, this is in the trader's "best interests." However, overexposure to the shaky derivatives is dangerous for the bank itself in the long run. The banks need to set up bonus systems that reward trading that is in the bank's interests and not just in the trader's short term interests. Greenspan appears to have failed to foresee the failure of "the banks" in creating bonus systems that suited the bank's long term interests.

You can't really apply Objectivism to institutions and societies. Ayn Rand's philosophy was directed toward the individual.

Greenspan was reaching a bit with his analogy while coadie is in the deep end of the pool and without his water wings.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Your "analysis" is bizarre as usual, coadie.

Greenspan's appeal to banks and other institutions "following their own self interests" was simply an attempt at an analogy on his part. What you have failed to see (and what Greenspan at least appears to have missed) is that the trading that goes on within "the banks" is done by individuals who may or may not have the bank's best interest in mind.

Rolling the dice to get large yields when the market is good will provide huge bonuses for the bank's traders. Presumably, this is in the trader's "best interests." However, overexposure to the shaky derivatives is dangerous for the bank itself in the long run. The banks need to set up bonus systems that reward trading that is in the bank's interests and not just in the trader's short term interests.

You can't really apply Objectivism to institutions and societies. Ayn Rand's philosophy was directed toward the individual.

Greenspan was reaching a bit with his analogy while coadie is in the deep end of the pool and without his water wings.

They weren't rolling the dice. They were selling actual mortgage or asset backed securities. Tells us you are clueless. The 2 problems attached were that they were highly leveraged and the quality was lower than the actual ratings. The second reason behind that was the mark to market laws that caused mandatory writedowns.

Stick with your worm theories.


Pelthais you don't know what you are talking about,
You seem to have no clue how Investment or merchant banks reward pay
You also don't know that issuing and underwriting is a different source of revenue than retail trading. Goldman Sachs was not a bank member of the fed Reserve till "Hank" Paulson, Jr in september 2008 had them convert to bank holding companies. The other converted underwriter was Morgan Stanley.



The trading you talk about isn't in banks. It was between investment banks. For example BNP Paribas was highly uncovered and the failure of AIG would have hurt them a lot.

Stick with Darwinian fairy tales for adults and let socialite stick with Ayn Rand fiction novels.




http://www.amazon.com/Art-Fiction-Gu...der_0452281547

Read Ayn rands book, the art of Fiction.

[Socialite]

An entire thread about an author you've never read! hahahahahahahahahaahahaha

You're not even worth responding to anymore.

And quit being dishonest with the facts, and listen to Greenspan's clarifications about his Congressional statements (which were neither direct shots at Rand): http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video...nspan-10281612 (also posted on the original thread)

He must have felt lust for her because she sure didn't have intelligence to offer.

Greenspan and the others urged Congress "to be aware of the potential unintended consequences" of legislation to regulate derivatives.

They got it exactly wrong. Swaps and derivatives ended up undermining, not bolstering, the economy.


Greenspan was stupid. I knew that Goldman Sachs made money rating, underwriting and retail trading.

Are you even reading your own puke here?

1) Rand has no intelligence and Greenspan was stupid while you knew all along (of course).
2) Your citation of Greenspan warning about regulation is exactly opposite of Free Market ideology. Maybe you can elaborate where you were going with that one, because you certainly didn't make any sense (of course this has been the norm).
3) Listen in carefully to that video clip, starting at around 11:30. You'll know what Greenspan's "final word" is on Ayn Rand's influenced Free Market ideology... which is neither Rand's own (her's was Objectivism, which promoted Free Market).

Sorry, Professor, you will have to try again. Maybe another thread just for you?

[coadie]

"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders' equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief."

Sorry, the hardest word
Congressman Henry Waxman "My question is simple. Were you wrong?"
Greenspan "Partially ... I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks, is such that they were best capable of protecting shareholders and equity in the firms

"I discovered a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works. I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well. The overall view I take of regulation is, I took an oath of office when I became Federal Reserve chairman. I'm here to uphold the laws of the land passed by Congress, not my own predilections."

Seduced by the false predelictions from Ayn Rand and the libertarian utopia.

[coadie]

St. Petersburg in revolt gave us Vladimir Nabokov, Isaiah Berlin and Ayn Rand. The first was a novelist, the second a philosopher. The third was neither but thought she was both.

Now farrah Fawcett. Wow. She must have been an economist mind if there ever was one.

Farrah Fawcett. Not long before she died, the actress called Rand a "literary genius" whose refusal to make her art "like everyone else's" inspired Fawcett's experiments in painting and sculpture

Rand clearly thought of herself as one of these creators. In an interview with Mike Wallace she declared herself "the most creative thinker alive."

What trash!!

http://www.thenation.com/article/garbage-and-gravitas

[Socialite]

I notice you completely ignored the video clip interview with Greenspan where he addresses the Ayn Rand philosophy and Free Market ideology. Figures...


And thank you for correcting that he didn't say Ayn Rand was wrong. He said his ideas about people completely governing themselves was "partially" wrong.

Facts.... tough things aren't they.