Apostolic Unity

[Sabby]

What prevents the apostolic church from experiencing the type of unity Jesus desires (Jn 17)?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

What prevents the apostolic church from experiencing the type of unity Jesus desires (Jn 17)?

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by seekerman

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

Seekerguy,
This question is directed to those that consider themselves apostolic.
You did not answer my question but instead injected your opinion about the Bible. Since by your post it appears you don't believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God then I believe you have disqualified yourself from this discussion.
Sorry you feel that way about the book. Is the Koran more reliable? What about Vishnu? What do you use (other than an emotional opinion) to PROVE that "your god is Jesus' god"? What other resource do you have (in writing) that directs you to a personal relationship and accountability to a Holy God? The Bible is the most reliable resource for information about God the Creator and Savior than anything else you may ever read.
My question again, to apostolics is: What do we DO to encourage Apostolic Unity among ministry and laity?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

Seekerguy,
This question is directed to those that consider themselves apostolic.

Ok.

You did not answer my question but instead injected your opinion about the Bible.

I disagree, I did answer. The bible is one of the major reasons there's conflict in the so-called 'apostolic' movement. Some 'apostolics' teach from the bible it's a sin for a woman to cut her hair, other 'apostolics' teach that it's ok using the same bible. Some 'apostolics' will say the bible teaches that TV is a sin, other 'apostolics' teach that TV isn't a sin.

There's Steve Winter 'apostolics', UPC 'apostolics' and other 'apostolics' all teaching conflicting teachings based on the same bible.

Since by your post it appears you don't believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God then I believe you have disqualified yourself from this discussion.

Why would that disqualify me?

Sorry you feel that way about the book. Is the Koran more reliable? What about Vishnu?

I don't know much about the Koran, but I doubt it would be more reliable. Likewise Vishnu.

What do you use (other than an emotional opinion) to PROVE that "your god is Jesus' god"?

Oh, I use the bible for that.

What other resource do you have (in writing) that directs you to a personal relationship and accountability to a Holy God?

There are many spiritual writings that directs one to a personal relationship and accountibility to a Holy God. I suspect you're going to want to know what others, so I'll save a step and give you one. The Gospel of Thomas.

Now we'll argue about why the bible contains the books that it does.

The Bible is the most reliable resource for information about God the Creator and Savior than anything else you may ever read.

You don't know everything that I've ever read.

My question again, to apostolics is: What do we DO to encourage Apostolic Unity among ministry and laity?

Are you speaking of Steve Winter 'apostolics', UPC 'apostolics' or one of the other 'apostolic' sects out there? What bible do they use to come to such conflicting beliefs?

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Oh, I use the bible for that.

In this instance, you cannot use a 'flawed' book that you have said contradicts itself to prove that your belief is right (in this case that Jesus and you serve the same God). The bible is either wholly true or wholly false.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Disciple

In this instance, you cannot use a 'flawed' book that you have said contradicts itself to prove that your belief is right (in this case that Jesus and you serve the same God). The bible is either wholly true or wholly false.

Amen to that!

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by seekerman

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

The Bible only can have flaws when it is viewed with flawed eyes, which we all have.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by seekerman

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

We need to find a place of agreement to begin a discussion. Do you believe the scriptural canon of 66 books that consist of today's Bible is the infallible word of God?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

We need to find a place of agreement to begin a discussion. Do you believe the scriptural canon of 66 books that consist of today's Bible is the infallible word of God?

Not unless God is a baby killing, confused, inconsistent God. So, no, I don't believe the scriptural canon of 66 books that make up the protestant bible is infallible.....nor inerrant.

It's a collection of books, not God.

[Sister Alvear]

lots of things...politics in general....