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Old 08-10-2010, 05:55 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

There is fascinating and almost candid discussion between Carlton Coon, HMD director, and David Bernard, General Superintendent, in the latest HMD Live video webcast, August 10th.

http://www.homemissionsdivision.com/HMLive/

Coon speaks of internal research indicating only 3 out of 10 Home missionary works have been successful ... and those ministers who are "not effective" are leaving the fellowship in droves. (Me: Are they not effective because they can't get a plant started or have moved in a different ideological direction?)

The focus now, by the org, will be daughter works which according to Coon are effective 7 out 10 times. A new org wide initiative called CP425 is being launched in which 425 churches a year will be planted in the next 5 years.

Also there is a recognition by both that 3rd, 4th and 5th generation UPCIers are leaving and the only way to deal with it is to reach new 1st generation converts and "grow our way out of it" ....

Coon further states that in those churches going a different direction it's the 1st generation members that find another UPCI church.

How effective is the identity campaign if it cannot survive cross-generationally? Retention would seem to be a dire need if this is the case.

They also speak of the economic cutbacks made at the WEC in the August 3rd webcast. Bernard declares that the org is healthy but there has been a "little hit" or "little bump" in which some have left who thought the org was too strict or not too strict.

Coon also feels that a new stress on "apologetics" is necessary. While Bernard feels more training is necessary but an experiential approach will reach this postmodern culture. Just bring them to an "apostolic service" then make the connection to biblical authority.
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Last edited by DAII; 08-10-2010 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:19 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

The July 27th webcast is hilarious .... where Coon speaks that the UPCI and church plants must become relevant but feels he must define the word "relevant" and what it is not ... while admitting it has become a bad word in the UPCI culture ....
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Last edited by DAII; 08-10-2010 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:38 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by DAII View Post
The July 27th webcast is hilarious .... where Coon speaks that the UPCI and church plants must become relevant but feels he must define the word "relevant" and what it is not ... while admitting it has become a bad word in the UPCI culture ....
Well that is funny but I am glad he recognizes that.

I also agree with both, that we need both an emphasis on apologetics and training
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:26 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

Why not admit the "mistake" of teaching men were sinning if they wore a beard? How about the one where they said its a sin for a Woman to trim their hair? I believe those two admissions would go a long way.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:31 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Why not admit the "mistake" of teaching men were sinning if they wore a beard? How about the one where they said its a sin for a Woman to trim their hair? I believe those two admissions would go a long way.
I don't think DKB thinks it's a sin or "rebellious" anymore to wear a beard ... in addition, to the Executive board now allowing beards on the General Conference platform ... his son, a drummer at the church, wears one or at least has sported one for awhile ... (You gotta love Facebook )

I'd post a picture but I don't want Pelathais going into encephalopathic fits
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Last edited by DAII; 08-10-2010 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:42 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by DAII View Post
I don't think DKB thinks it's a sin or "rebellious" anymore to wear a beard ... besides the Executive board now allowing beards on the General Conference platform ... his son, a drummer at the church, wears one or at least has sported one for awhile ... (You gotta love Facebook )
So then if he wants to move on why not help the Pastors that are still believing the unscriptural doctrine by making a statement that they were in error teaching it?
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:44 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So then if he wants to move on why not help the Pastors that are still believing the unscriptural doctrine by making a statement that they were in error teaching it?
Because he wrote the book on Holiness and the New Birth?
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:12 AM
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Sherri Sherri is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

The website for DKB's daughter work church downtown doesn't even look UPC at all. I was a little confused when I saw it, knowing how harsh he had been in the past. It's been several months since I looked at it, so I don't know what's on there now.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:16 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So then if he wants to move on why not help the Pastors that are still believing the unscriptural doctrine by making a statement that they were in error teaching it?
BTW, Mike ... a recent straw poll on one of the masonic preacher forums shows that only about half believe that a woman wearing pants is a heaven or hell issue ... but more than 75% believe a woman cutting her hair is salvational ....

Hair is sacrosanct in this culture .... when the General Superintendent admits the laying of hair is a legitimate form of liturgy if it is used to remind God of consecration and used to "focus" faith.

The WPF would triple just by the exodus of these forum pastors if they touched a woman's hair ... and tried to change this extrabiblical holimess rule.
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Last edited by DAII; 08-10-2010 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:53 AM
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geekette geekette is offline
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Re: HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures

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Originally Posted by DAII View Post
BTW, Mike ... a recent straw poll on one of the masonic preacher forums shows that only about half believe that a woman wearing pants is a heaven or hell issue ... but more than 75% believe a woman cutting her hair is salvational ....

Hair is sacrosanct in this culture .... when the General Superintendent admits the laying of hair is a legitimate form of liturgy if it is used to remind God of consecration and used to "focus" faith.

The WPF would triple just by the exodus of these forum pastors if they touched a woman's hair ... and tried to change this extrabiblical holimess rule.
Dan, have you considered editing and publishing your work on the holy magic hair doctrine? Like in a book? As it is, if I knew some young sociologist or anthropologist of religion, someone who was looking for a Ph.D dissertation topic, I'd recommend HMH--there's a lot here to explore.

As it is, I have long (trimmed) hair and every other day here in Arizona I want to take a pair of scissors to it and whack it off due to the heat. (I've felt this way every summer since I started growing it back out again four years ago.) And then I remember my mom's voice: "You'll miss it." Yep. I would.
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