Baptism: Water to Fire

[SteppingStone]

Something I'm still looking into but it appears that the Baptism shifted from Water to Holy Ghost Fire in the book of Acts when the words of Christ were recalled..

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

At this point below they were still realizing that the Holy Ghost was being given prior to water baptism yet Peter was still commanding water baptism as well.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

From this point fwd it appears that Peter may or may not have realized that Baptism shifted from Water to Holy Ghost Fire because he was recalling the words of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

And here above Paul appears to be declaring that the power of God is in the cross, meaning death, burial, and resurrection is simply receiving the Holy Ghost. Otherwise why would he be trivializing water baptism and saying he doesn't teach it anymore?

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The message is from natural things to Spiritual things. John prepared the way of the Lord with the baptism of water repentance but the one greater did come and He did verily Baptize with Holy Ghost Fire..

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The Water Baptism of John was never symbolic of the Death of Christ, it was symbolic of, "One who would Baptize with Fire." It appears to have taken the Apostles a while to realize this themselves...

And for the record, I've been Baptized 3 times in water in the name of Jesus. Once by my 1st Pastor in October 1996, once by my second pastor about less than a year later (Of whom I was referred to by my 1st Pastor,) and then again several years later by one of the Elders of the church. Three times I submitted myself to man so nobody can say I'm "Rebellious" or any other carnal nonsense.

[AJS]

I do not believe that it is necessary for a believer in Christ to be water baptized at all.
..
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism – yes… the early disciples did at the beginning baptize converts in water,…but God does not count man’s water baptism. Considering,… that everything Jesus did was for mankind, thus by his own baptism everyone…. has been baptized into Christ…because he was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29)

The whole human race died and was buried (baptized) by the Messiah's baptism. Any water baptism done now by a believer, it is simply getting him wet…b/c we should be teaching - the complete end of physical water baptism.

[Godsdrummer]

Some Good thoughts and points that makes some scence as I don't see water baptism myself as a point of salvation I don't have a opinion. I still see baptims as a seal of our salvation. Just as circumsision was to Abraham. Romans 4.

Here is a thought to ponder.

Jesus never refered to baptism to Nicodemus when he said born of water. birth of water goes all the way back to creation when God said let the waters bring forth life abundantly. Therefor Jesus had to be speaking of the natural birth.

How much more plain can you get to looking on the serpent in the wildreness, to beleiving on Jesus to be saved.

[Sam]

Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the "principles of the doctrine of Christ." KJV

other versions call them:
"the elementary teachings about Christ" NIV
"the elementary teaching about the Christ" NASB
"the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ" The Message
"the basic teachings about Christ" NLT
"the elementary principles of Christ" NKJV
"the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ" Amplified

These 6 basic or fundamental doctrines are listed as:
repentance from dead works
faith toward God
baptisms (plural)
laying on of hands
resurrection of the dead
eternal judgment

Notice that baptisms is plural.
Both water baptism and Spirit baptism were part of the experience of the early church.

Baptism/mikveh/ritual cleansing were practiced by the Jews prior to the birth of Christ. These were done by immersion or by the pouring of water. When Jewish people came to John the Baptizer at the Jordan River, he told them that there was another baptism to come, a baptism administered by someone who was greater than he (John) because this Greater One existed before him (even though He was born 6 months after him). This second baptism would be done with or in the Holy Spirit just like their baptism had been done with or in water.

There are about 20 incidents of people being converted or being saved recorded in the Book of Acts and several times it is also stated that these converts or new believers were baptized in water and in the Spirit. Both water and Spirit baptism are recorded as late as the 19th chapter of Acts (verses 1-7)which is considered to have taken place in October AD 53 which is about 20 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by Sam

Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the "principles of the doctrine of Christ." KJV

other versions call them:
"the elementary teachings about Christ" NIV
"the elementary teaching about the Christ" NASB
"the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ" The Message
"the basic teachings about Christ" NLT
"the elementary principles of Christ" NKJV
"the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ" Amplified

These 6 basic or fundamental doctrines are listed as:
repentance from dead works
faith toward God
baptisms (plural)
laying on of hands
resurrection of the dead
eternal judgment

Notice that baptisms is plural.
Both water baptism and Spirit baptism were part of the experience of the early church.

Baptism/mikveh/ritual cleansing were practiced by the Jews prior to the birth of Christ. These were done by immersion or by the pouring of water. When Jewish people came to John the Baptizer at the Jordan River, he told them that there was another baptism to come, a baptism administered by someone who was greater than he (John) because this Greater One existed before him (even though He was born 6 months after him). This second baptism would be done with or in the Holy Spirit just like their baptism had been done with or in water.

There are about 20 incidents of people being converted or being saved recorded in the Book of Acts and several times it is also stated that these converts or new believers were baptized in water and in the Spirit. Both water and Spirit baptism are recorded as late as the 19th chapter of Acts (verses 1-7)which is considered to have taken place in October AD 53 which is about 20 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

I've considered Hebrews 6 and it could possibly be that water baptism was only intended until the Holy Ghost came on Pentecost. I also noted in my original post that it appears that it took them a while to recall this because they were still doing both water and Spirit baptisms. It's almost as if the water baptism of John was still under the time period of, "The Law & The Prophets." Then grace came on Pentecost..

[SRM]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

I've considered Hebrews 6 and it could possibly be that water baptism was only intended until the Holy Ghost came on Pentecost. I also noted in my original post that it appears that it took them a while to recall this because they were still doing both water and Spirit baptisms. It's almost as if the water baptism of John was still under the time period of, "The Law & The Prophets." Then grace came on Pentecost..

Here is another twist..I have been wanting to do a study on the term "in the name"..it is very possible Jesus simply meant to baptize people in water because of his authority.In the name can mean "by authority"...We know what Peter commanded in Acts 2,we know they were baptized in the name of the Lord in Acts 8,Peter commanded water baptism in Acts 10..but do we have an account where the baptizer dunking the person and saying "in the name of Jesus"?

Maybe this is why we have no consitency

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized[B] in the name of the Lord.

ct 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

We know it was done..but we have no actual verbatim recording of an actual incident..

For the record..I have been baptized in Jesus name and I love the name of Jesus,but perhaps there is not such a rigid view on water baptism when it comes to in the tittles or in the name,this can explain why non apostolic people receive the Holy Ghost too..maybe it is man who wants to place a strian on scripture?..these are just some thoughts I have had and wanted to share them.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Some Good thoughts and points that makes some scence as I don't see water baptism myself as a point of salvation I don't have a opinion. I still see baptims as a seal of our salvation. Just as circumsision was to Abraham. Romans 4.

Here is a thought to ponder.

Jesus never refered to baptism to Nicodemus when he said born of water. birth of water goes all the way back to creation when God said let the waters bring forth life abundantly. Therefor Jesus had to be speaking of the natural birth.

How much more plain can you get to looking on the serpent in the wildreness, to beleiving on Jesus to be saved.

What do you think would happen if Abraham refused to be cirumcized?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

What do you think would happen if Abraham refused to be cirumcized?

The covenant between abraham and God was circumscision.

the Covenant between God and His Church is the Spirit. which is the Promise, the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit is the Free Gift of God. ephesians 2:8-9.

we have entered a new covenant founded on better promises.

The Promise of the Holy Ghost

Acts 1:4-5 (King James Version)

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for (THE PROMISE) of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the (Holy Ghost) not many days hence.

acts 2:39
39For (THE PROMISE) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call

If you have recieved the Promise what else do you need? you have recieved the new covenant of God. The Holy Spirit

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

What do you think would happen if Abraham refused to be cirumcized?

Bump for Godsdrummer

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by AJS

I do not believe that it is necessary for a believer in Christ to be water baptized at all.
..
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism – yes… the early disciples did at the beginning baptize converts in water,…but God does not count man’s water baptism. Considering,… that everything Jesus did was for mankind, thus by his own baptism everyone…. has been baptized into Christ…because he was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29)

The whole human race died and was buried (baptized) by the Messiah's baptism. Any water baptism done now by a believer, it is simply getting him wet…b/c we should be teaching - the complete end of physical water baptism.

Where did the apostle's get the water baptism from? Who told them to do it?