Faith without works is........

[Jack Shephard]

Talking about if there is no action to your salvation, i.e. reaching the lost, living well, etc., not that it takes works of tongues, etc to be saved. IMO. Just thought I would say that while I was thinking about it.

[Mirth1981]

Faith without works is DEAD. Just like James 2:20 says it is...

But what type of works is that verse talking about? It's talking about loving your neighbor and helping your brother or sister that is going through a hard time. No, it is NOT talking about speaking in tongues...or even being baptized. Yes, I have heard this verse twisted to say that it is proof that we're not saved simply by having faith and believing in Jesus Christ, but that we also need to exhibit works ie. baptism and speaking in tongues.

I think what James 2 is saying more than anything is that if you have true faith, you will naturally have good works i.e. loving your neighbor and helping your brothers/sisters in need. This is pretty basic.

James 2:14-17 (ESV)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

[*AQuietPlace*]

"Faith without works is like a song you can't sing,
it's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine..."

- Rich Mullins

[ouden katakrim]

Faith without works is not necessarily dead. James epistle is more pragmatic than theological and didactic. Since we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith a gift, it is necessarily the case that at justification the faith that justifies is a faith that has no works, i.e the thief on the cross...so unless we become like the thief, helpless, hopeless and deedless, we will not evacuate our soul of presumptuous works and believe.

ouden

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by ouden katakrim

Faith without works is not necessarily dead. James epistle is more pragmatic than theological and didactic. Since we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith a gift, it is necessarily the case that at justification the faith that justifies is a faith that has no works, i.e the thief on the cross...so unless we become like the thief, helpless, hopeless and deedless, we will not evacuate our soul of presumptuous works and believe.

ouden

yeah.... not didactic.. LOL! So says the faith only guy. Faith is not a gift, GRACE isthe gift in Eph 2:8

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

yeah.... not didactic.. LOL! So says the faith only guy. Faith is not a gift, GRACE isthe gift in Eph 2:8

Faith is actually a gift..

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

The reality is that some don't even have faith that's why you don't see any fruit of their labors being produced. Simply believing there's a God is not really faith, that's just believing. We "Believe" unto salvation and if we continue forward and believe on Christ according to the scriptures, then rivers of living waters will proceed from within us. And the greatest act of faith is loving your enemies (Takes a lot of virtue) because loving those that love you back is very easy to do..

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

Faith is actually a gift..

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

The reality is that some don't even have faith that's why you don't see any fruit of their labors being produced. Simply believing there's a God is not really faith, that's just believing. We "Believe" unto salvation and if we continue forward and believe on Christ according to the scriptures, then rivers of living waters will proceed from within us. And the greatest act of faith is loving your enemies (Takes a lot of virtue) because loving those that love you back is very easy to do..

many would consider that a totally different aspect than what Paul is talking about on Romans 4. So you are saying the "Faith" of James 2 is not given to everyone that is saved? LOL! You have to understand the use of the term faith as it is context and perspective oriented.


1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Faith cometh by hearing. Faith is trust and that is something you do in response to the WORD presented.


My point was ephesians 2:8 is not saying "faith" is the gift in reference but Grace is. We are saved BY Grace through faith that not of yourselves it is the gift of God lest any man should boast. "it is the gift of God" is a reference to grace. Now we can say he is the source of our faith as it is his Word that brings about saving faith which is our response to his Word. Thus Faith in that aspect is a result of the gift and is tangible aspect to the gift.

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

many would consider that a totally different aspect than what Paul is talking about on Romans 4. So you are saying the "Faith" of James 2 is not given to everyone that is saved? LOL! You have to understand the use of the term faith as it is context and perspective oriented.


1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Faith cometh by hearing. Faith is trust and that is something you do in response to the WORD presented.


My point was ephesians 2:8 is not saying "faith" is the gift in reference but Grace is. We are saved BY Grace through faith that not of yourselves it is the gift of God lest any man should boast. "it is the gift of God" is a reference to grace. Now we can say he is the source of our faith as it is his Word that brings about saving faith which is our response to his Word. Thus Faith in that aspect is a result of the gift and is tangible aspect to the gift.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Jesus said Abraham saw that day (Spiritually as did many others) and he was glad. So in reality Abraham 1st "Believed" and then continued forward. Their was no doubt divine virtue imparted. Abraham didn't just simply believe the story, his faith rested in the divine impartation, otherwise Abraham could boast himself...

So I believe people have a measure of faith but it's a gift from God. No man can declare Jesus is Lord but by the Father (Spirit.)

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by ouden katakrim

faith without works is not necessarily dead. James epistle is more pragmatic than theological and didactic. Since we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith a gift, it is necessarily the case that at justification the faith that justifies is a faith that has no works, i.e the thief on the cross...so unless we become like the thief, helpless, hopeless and deedless, we will not evacuate our soul of presumptuous works and believe.

Ouden

bingo

[DAII]

Honestly would love to see Godhead ninjas drinking Enseyite koolaid move from the Division AAA league engaging taxi cab driver/wrestler/theologians or atheists on topics like the existence of One God which 99.99% of Christianity or the evils the Obama administration ... And honestly engage those within their own movement who differ with them on holiness standards and the doctrine of essential invocation in baptism in order to be saved and remi sins.