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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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05-18-2010, 08:15 PM
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For those that left the UPC...
Hi...I don't intend for this thread to be started as a debate. I would just like to hear stories from those that have left the UPC.
Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave? Was it difficult? Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way? Do you have any regrets? Anything you wish you had done differently? How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?
I have been really struggling in my spirit lately. I'm terrified of leaving the UPC because of the repercussions it will cause in my life (and for my husband, who is a minister). Yet I know feeling this way just reinforces the fact that I need to "get out." I still believe in oneness, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. What I don't believe in is man made "standards" that create an environment that breeds judgmentalism and pharisetical saints. Also every church I've been in...I feel controlled....even manipulated. I can't do that anymore. But I don't know how to get out.
I hope this is okay...and that I'm not breaking any rules by posting this. I have been reading this forum lately, and it seems like there are many very balanced people on here. This seemed like a good place to go for support.
Thank you in advance.
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05-18-2010, 08:20 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
Have you read these recent threads?
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=28788
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=29925
If you feel this way, that you are being brainwashed, manipulated, and controlled,then you should leave and leave in love.
It's hard for me to believe that "every" church that has a UPC licensed pastor is like this since my pastor is affiliated with the UPC and is not like that. I hope you won't be broadbrushing all UPC ministers according to your experiences. I've had three different pastors, all associated with the UPC, in three different churches in three different locations and none of them were controlling. I just want to show that not ALL and EVERY UPC minister is like the ones you have known.
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His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently.  Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Last edited by mizpeh; 05-18-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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05-18-2010, 08:57 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
What does your husband think?
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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05-18-2010, 09:23 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
In 1963 or 1964 we left a UPC church to start going to an ALJC church.
We went to the ALJC church because it was smaller and the people had a real attitude of love toward one another. It was sort of a "culture shock" to us because of the "hair." At the UPC church it seemed that most of the women kept their hair short enough to manage but long enough to put into some kind of pentecostal hair do. At the ALJC church many of the women had hair that was obviously cut and dyed. Both the UPC pastor (Dist. Supt) and the ALJC pastor and the members of both churches had televisions. TV was not an issue in that part of Ohio. Whereas the UPC church ladies wore rings of all kinds and watches, some of the ALJC ladies might wear a chain or small necklace or bracelet in addition to rings and watches but neither group wore ear rings. The ladies at the ALJC church wore pants and sleeveless clothes but not to church. Some ladies at the UPC church did the same. Kids at the ALJC church went to the prom.
The ALJC church had split off from the UPC church in 1945 before the ALJC had even been formed. I don't know what organization (if any) it was in 1945. At one time I think it was AMC (Apostolic Missionary Council). I don't know if that organization even exists any more.
After we left the UPC church a rumor went around that we were getting divorced. In time, folks from the UPC church began to speak to us if they saw us out somewhere.
A few years later that UPC church had another split and became two rival UPC churches in the same city with separate youth rallies, etc. People started coming from both of those churches to our ALJC church. One of the churches, the group that left the pastor who was still there from 1945, began to fellowship us.
Later the ALJC church had a split and a new UPC church developed in a nearby (30 mile away) town from that group that left. Another group left the ALJC church and has a small church nearby. Still later the ALJC senior pastor/bishop died, his son resigned and took a UPC church in FL and a UPC pastor took over. So, now we have 3 UPC churches here in town with folks migrating back and forth.
Oh, and that original church that sufferered the split in 1945. Well, it was established in 1920 or 1925 when the pastor came from Indiana and took over a group that split off another church here in Cincinnati. I assume the splits in 1945, and 1968 were just him reaping what he sowed in the 1920's when he took over a split church.
Since 1992 I have just gone to a trinity church (one from 1992 to 2006 and another from 2006 till the present). I feel much better about the people I associate with and much better about myself after getting out of the UPC. By now many of the folks in those various UPC splits and factions have either forgotten me or have accepted me or have just written me off as reprobate.
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05-18-2010, 11:12 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
Is this really a DEEP WATERS issue?  Or just getting into deep water? lol
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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08-24-2010, 07:09 AM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Since 1992 I have just gone to a trinity church (one from 1992 to 2006 and another from 2006 till the present). I feel much better about the people I associate with and much better about myself after getting out of the UPC. By now many of the folks in those various UPC splits and factions have either forgotten me or have accepted me or have just written me off as reprobate.
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Its sad that you could not find any solice so you went to a trinity church. How much does it bother you regarding their baptismal formula or belief on the Godhead. Are they " I will see three in heaven" type trinitarians or are they "its all one" type trinity
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08-24-2010, 12:12 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefaith2
Its sad that you could not find any solice so you went to a trinity church. How much does it bother you regarding their baptismal formula or belief on the Godhead. Are they " I will see three in heaven" type trinitarians or are they "its all one" type trinity
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I believe that a person is justified/saved/regenerated by faith separate and apart from water and/or Spirit baptism. Actually, there are a lot of Apostolics who believe the same. If a person is truly justified/saved/born again by faith without water and/or Spirit baptism, there are multitudes of people all around us --many in trinity churches--who are our brothers and sisters. So, I attend a trinity church and fellowship lots of trinity people who are, in my opinion, part of the Body of Christ/the Church of Jesus Christ/the Family of God.
You mentioned two "differences" between trinity and oneness folks, water baptism and godhead view.
1. Well, I believe that water baptism according to the Bible is:
--for a repentant believer
--to be done by immersion if practically possible
--the name of Jesus with or without titles such as "Lord" or "Christ" should be spoken.
I realize all Christians do not see water baptism the same way as I do so I respect their opinions
2. godhead, well there are certainly lots of differences among us --whether we call ourselves trinity or oneness-- on the "godhead." That's quite evident by reading some of the posts on this forum. In my opinion we humans will never completely understand or explain our infinite triune God --He's way too big to fit into our puny minds-- so let's quit arguing about Him and just love Him and serve Him.
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08-24-2010, 01:53 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I believe that a person is justified/saved/regenerated by faith separate and apart from water and/or Spirit baptism. Actually, there are a lot of Apostolics who believe the same. If a person is truly justified/saved/born again by faith without water and/or Spirit baptism, there are multitudes of people all around us --many in trinity churches--who are our brothers and sisters. So, I attend a trinity church and fellowship lots of trinity people who are, in my opinion, part of the Body of Christ/the Church of Jesus Christ/the Family of God.
You mentioned two "differences" between trinity and oneness folks, water baptism and godhead view.
1. Well, I believe that water baptism according to the Bible is:
--for a repentant believer
--to be done by immersion if practically possible
--the name of Jesus with or without titles such as "Lord" or "Christ" should be spoken.
I realize all Christians do not see water baptism the same way as I do so I respect their opinions
2. godhead, well there are certainly lots of differences among us --whether we call ourselves trinity or oneness-- on the "godhead." That's quite evident by reading some of the posts on this forum. In my opinion we humans will never completely understand or explain our infinite triune God --He's way too big to fit into our puny minds-- so let's quit arguing about Him and just love Him and serve Him.
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If God had not intended us to understand his Godhead, there would not be so many scriptures that claim He is one.
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05-18-2010, 09:02 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
I'm in the same place you're in, and some days I feel like my head is going to explode from the pressure.
I wish it didn't have to be so tough. Wish people could allow you to follow God in the way you feel you should, without taking it so personally that you don't believe the way they do.
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05-18-2010, 11:22 PM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...
I apologize if I started this thread in the wrong area. Or if I shouldn't have started it at all. I won't be offended if it needs to be moved or deleted.
I'm not trying to say every UPC church is wrong, or that every UPC minister is wrong. Sorry if I came across that way. My husband is a minister...and he is a good man, with a sincere love for God. He really doesn't know what to think right now since I told him how I have been feeling. I think he feels crushed that I feel this way, but at the same time he doesn't know how to explain the "holiness standards" that are enforced in UPC churches.
Right now, I am leaning towards just "toughing" it out at my current church..but I don't know how long I can do that for. And I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because I don't agree with what is taught.
I love the Lord and I'm so thankful for His mercy in my life.
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