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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
Kind of sappy... sorry. And I object to the notion that the United States Constitution is "inspired of God." It's good, but not "inspired by God." In fact, it sort of goes out of the way to make no such claims for itself.
Also, why is the vitriolic critic and enemy of traditional Christian faith, Thomas Paine, called a "good man" who was "used by God" while the alleged college professor, clutching "the Origin of Species" is said to be trying to elevate himself to be equal with God? The Origin of Species, if anything, devalues any notion of "divinity" in human beings.
And if truth were a concern of the artist, we should see Thomas Jefferson pushing Jesus down thestairs because it was Jefferson's firm and outspoken belief that Jesus was not divine.
Forty years on, JFK is actually more famous for his dalliance with Marilyn Monroe in the White House, right under Jackie's nose than he is for his inaugural speech.
Benjamin Franklin should have the "Christian minister" between him and Jesus. In his thousands of letters that we have have preserved, Franklin never once even mentions Jesus Christ in passing. The two apparently had never met.
Nathan Hale was a great patriot, however he was justifiably executed by the British because he had violated the Laws of War and, as a soldier - a fighting combatant, had deliberately disguised himself and attempted to hide among the civilian population while carrying out an act of war against the British. In other words, he sort of did the same thing the Taliban do, only with a more noble goal in mind.
George Washington: the "Father of Our Country" was a deist and a philosophically committed Mason. He is famously said to have knelt in prayer at Valley Forge. The only problem is that the individuals that are said to have "witnessed" this either have denied it or are completely silent about it. No serious American historian has been able to attribute any religious faith to Washington other than his transcendental deism and his several secular announcements proclaiming a day or a time of "Thanksgiving to our Maker" - the impersonal deist god.
Abraham Lincoln - the "Great Emancipator." The only slaves he actually freed were those held behind Southern lines. These were slaves that he had no real power to free. He specifically forbade the release from slavery of all slaves in Union held territories. The Emancipation Proclamation was only a bit a window dressing designed for European consumption. It had no real effect in the United States.
Sequoya and the "Indian Nation?" As most "Indians" and historians will tell you, there were over 500 hundred "Indian Nations." Sequoya was a Cherokee. After siding with the "Whites" (really just the S.C. militia) in a war against other Indian tribes, the Cherokees briefly enjoyed a sort of favored status. In 1831, Sequoya and the rest of the Cherokee Nation were repaid for their loyalty by being forced from their homes and marched at the point of a bayonet to resettle in Oklahoma. Sequoya died in poverty. Sixty years later almost all of "Indian Territory" was removed from Indian control and given away for just the price of a claim fee to "whites."
John Hancock and John Adams are perhaps almost unique among the "Founding Fathers" in that they believed that God just might answer prayer. The vast majority of the rest were children of the enlightenment and concurred with Thomas Paine's words:
"It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene..."
The words of a "good man" as he was being "used by God?"
But I know, I know. It's just make believe. Why can't we all just agree to pretend?
Kind of sappy... sorry. And I object to the notion that the United States Constitution is "inspired of God." It's good, but not "inspired by God." In fact, it sort of goes out of the way to make no such claims for itself.
Also, why is the vitriolic critic and enemy of traditional Christian faith, Thomas Paine, called a "good man" who was "used by God" while the alleged college professor, clutching "the Origin of Species" is said to be trying to elevate himself to be equal with God? The Origin of Species, if anything, devalues any notion of "divinity" in human beings.
And if truth were a concern of the artist, we should see Thomas Jefferson pushing Jesus down thestairs because it was Jefferson's firm and outspoken belief that Jesus was not divine.
Forty years on, JFK is actually more famous for his dalliance with Marilyn Monroe in the White House, right under Jackie's nose than he is for his inaugural speech.
Benjamin Franklin should have the "Christian minister" between him and Jesus. In his thousands of letters that we have have preserved, Franklin never once even mentions Jesus Christ in passing. The two apparently had never met.
Nathan Hale was a great patriot, however he was justifiably executed by the British because he had violated the Laws of War and, as a soldier - a fighting combatant, had deliberately disguised himself and attempted to hide among the civilian population while carrying out an act of war against the British. In other words, he sort of did the same thing the Taliban do, only with a more noble goal in mind.
George Washington: the "Father of Our Country" was a deist and a philosophically committed Mason. He is famously said to have knelt in prayer at Valley Forge. The only problem is that the individuals that are said to have "witnessed" this either have denied it or are completely silent about it. No serious American historian has been able to attribute any religious faith to Washington other than his transcendental deism and his several secular announcements proclaiming a day or a time of "Thanksgiving to our Maker" - the impersonal deist god.
Abraham Lincoln - the "Great Emancipator." The only slaves he actually freed were those held behind Southern lines. These were slaves that he had no real power to free. He specifically forbade the release from slavery of all slaves in Union held territories. The Emancipation Proclamation was only a bit a window dressing designed for European consumption. It had no real effect in the United States.
Sequoya and the "Indian Nation?" As most "Indians" and historians will tell you, there were over 500 hundred "Indian Nations." Sequoya was a Cherokee. After siding with the "Whites" (really just the S.C. militia) in a war against other Indian tribes, the Cherokees briefly enjoyed a sort of favored status. In 1831, Sequoya and the rest of the Cherokee Nation were repaid for their loyalty by being forced from their homes and marched at the point of a bayonet to resettle in Oklahoma. Sequoya died in poverty. Sixty years later almost all of "Indian Territory" was removed from Indian control and given away for just the price of a claim fee to "whites."
John Hancock and John Adams are perhaps almost unique among the "Founding Fathers" in that they believed that God just might answer prayer. The vast majority of the rest were children of the enlightenment and concurred with Thomas Paine's words:
"It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene..."
The words of a "good man" as he was being "used by God?"
But I know, I know. It's just make believe. Why can't we all just agree to pretend?
Thanks Pel, saved me a lot of typing. christian nation my foot...
I have mixed feelings about the concept of the United States being a Christian nation.
A lot of the founders and early settlers were a mixture of believers and others who acknowledged the importance of Judeo-Christian ethics and morality and some who just gave lip service to that concept.
Can we say we are a Christian nation when we are built upon genocide and ethnic cleansing?
I'm probably the only person here who wanted to jump up and "boo" at the end of the movies where you heard the bugle sounding a charge and the cavalry came over the hill.
I'm probably the only one here that is glad that General Custer received a gift of an arrow shirt (old Indian joke from an old Indian) in June 1876 near the Little Bighorn River.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Kind of sappy... sorry. And I object to the notion that the United States Constitution is "inspired of God." It's good, but not "inspired by God." In fact, it sort of goes out of the way to make no such claims for itself.
Benjamin Franklin should have the "Christian minister" between him and Jesus. In his thousands of letters that we have have preserved, Franklin never once even mentions Jesus Christ in passing. The two apparently had never met.
George Washington: the "Father of Our Country" was a deist and a philosophically committed Mason. He is famously said to have knelt in prayer at Valley Forge. The only problem is that the individuals that are said to have "witnessed" this either have denied it or are completely silent about it. No serious American historian has been able to attribute any religious faith to Washington other than his transcendental deism and his several secular announcements proclaiming a day or a time of "Thanksgiving to our Maker" - the impersonal deist god.
While I agree with most of what you said in the post I chopped up I take issue with two points. One minor the other not so much.
Franklin did in fact reference Jesus Christ, though perhaps not in the light most would like...
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire,
I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes,
and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity;
though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.
I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed;
especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.
As to Washington I am curious as to why the view you presented would be attributed to a man who wrote...
...I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus.
While I agree with most of what you said in the post I chopped up I take issue with two points. One minor the other not so much.
Franklin did in fact reference Jesus Christ, though perhaps not in the light most would like...
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire,
I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes,
and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity;
though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.
I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed;
especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.
As to Washington I am curious as to why the view you presented would be attributed to a man who wrote...
...I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Good questions: First of all, the alleged "prayer journal" for General Washington is spurious. He did not write those words. They were composed, fabricated out of whole cloth (I believe) in or around 1919 or 1920. This is when the "prayer at Valley Forge" mythos was promulgated.
Hybrid Mode
