The pope and cross

KWSS1976 · #1 03-17-2009, 12:15 PM

Why can the pope not wear his cross at this place..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509531,00.html

Sam · #2 03-17-2009, 12:27 PM

OK, a couple questions for discussion.

Should the pope take off the cross as a symbol of respect when he visits the wall (like some preachers take off a wedding ring or necktie when attending churches which preach against them)?

Should the Jewish officials at the wall just accept the pope as is, cross and all?

which, if either, is the "correct" thing to do?

Some years ago I was part of an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop, G.R. Brock, said that the Old Testament was very precise in describing the clothing of a priest when he officiated and that meant a minister should wear a tie when behind the pulpit. Bishop Brock visited a church in SE Kentucky pastored by Bro. Martin. Bro. Martin preached against neck ties. To him they were adornment. He asked Bishop Brock to remove his tie and Bishop Brock did. However, Bishop Brock invited Bro. Martin to visit him in Indianapolis and preach for him and advised him that when he came, he had to wear a necktie. And, if he did not bring a tie of his own, Bishop Brock kept one in the pulpit for an occasion like that.

Digging4Truth · #3 03-17-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

OK, a couple questions for discussion.

Should the pope take off the cross as a symbol of respect when he visits the wall (like some preachers take off a wedding ring or necktie when attending churches which preach against them)?

Should the Jewish officials at the wall just accept the pope as is, cross and all?

which, if either, is the "correct" thing to do?

Some years ago I was part of an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop, G.R. Brock, said that the Old Testament was very precise in describing the clothing of a priest when he officiated and that meant a minister should wear a tie when behind the pulpit. Bishop Brock visited a church in SE Kentucky pastored by Bro. Martin. Bro. Martin preached against neck ties. To him they were adornment. He asked Bishop Brock to remove his tie and Bishop Brock did. However, Bishop Brock invited Bro. Martin to visit him in Indianapolis and preach for him and advised him that when he came, he had to wear a necktie. And, if he did not bring a tie of his own, Bishop Brock kept one in the pulpit for an occasion like that.

'dems da breaks with you have man made rules.

When man makes the rules then the rules become as fallible and contradictory as man himself.

Sam · #4 03-17-2009, 12:51 PM

The cross is a symbol of repression, persecution, and torture to many Jewish folks. It is as offensive to them as a rebel flag, a noose, or a KKK hood and outfit is to some folks.

A local synagogue here is named Beth Messiah (House of the Messiah or House of Christ). They believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Their pastor is Rabbi Wolfe. They do not have a cross in or on the building and do not celebrate Christmas or Easter. They have sabbath (Friday night and Saturday) services.

I have never been there. Their Rabbi has visited the Vineyard where I used to go and was accepted as a minister. I don't know if they baptize, and if so, how they baptize.

Digging4Truth · #5 03-17-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

The cross is a symbol of repression, persecution, and torture to many Jewish folks. It is as offensive to them as a rebel flag, a noose, or a KKK hood and outfit is to some folks.

A local synagogue here is named Beth Messiah (House of the Messiah or House of Christ). They believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah. Their pastor is Rabbi Wolfe. They do not have a cross in or on the building and do not celebrate Christmas or Easter. They have sabbath (Friday night and Saturday) services.

I have never been there. Their Rabbi has visited the Vineyard where I used to go and was accepted as a minister. I don't know if they baptize, and if so, how they baptize.

I think you might find yourself in some big trouble if you walked the streets of Jerusalem preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Digging4Truth · #6 03-17-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Why can the pope not wear his cross at this place..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509531,00.html

Because you they don't like Christianity or their (thereby... our) Christ.

KWSS1976 · #7 03-17-2009, 12:53 PM

just found this

////http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/why_dont_jews_believe_in_jesus$.asp

So jesus was a jew and dies on the cross and his on jewish people don't believe he is the savior.. I did not know this about the jews...learned me something new now more question open up..whos right us or them....

Sam · #8 03-17-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

..whos right us or them....

There are documented records of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.
Those who associated with Him left records in their lifetime.
They were eyewitnesses of His ministry, His death, His resurrection and His subsequent ascension and pouring out of His Spirit. Over 500 people saw Him alive after His death and they could have bee contacted as late as AD 55 (when the book of 1 Corinthians was written) for personal verification.
Jesus/Yeshua was YHWH God (the God of the Jewish Scriptures and history) visiting His own people in the person of His Son/Angel/Messenger and offering the prophesied kingdom to them. Instead, they rejected Him and killed Him.

Christianity today is built on those Jewish people who personally knew and experienced Yeshua/Jesus and preached His death, burial, resurrection, and life changing power.

pelathais · #9 03-17-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

just found this

////http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/why_dont_jews_believe_in_jesus$.asp

So jesus was a jew and dies on the cross and his on jewish people don't believe he is the savior.. I did not know this about the jews...learned me something new now more question open up..whos right us or them....

A church where I was once employed rented its facilities out to a Messianic group. They all remarked favorably about how there were no crosses in the church's design. The building had been built and owned by an old tyme evangelical denomination before the Pentecostals bought it. It was almost Puritanical in design.

The rabbi remarked that they targeted believing Jews in their evangelism. He said many of them would freak out if they were surrounded by crosses and such. I withheld any jokes about vampires and kept them to myself.

KWSS1976 · #10 03-17-2009, 01:29 PM

I thought this thread would blow up for sure lots of history..