<---Unity of the faith...--->

Theophil · #1 02-28-2009, 02:57 PM

Ephesians 4:13 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What is "the unity of the faith", and when will this happen?

Theophil · #2 02-28-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophil

Ephesians 4:13 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What is "the unity of the faith", and when will this happen?

Ephesians 4 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is a “unity of the Spirit” and there is a “unity of the faith (word)”.

We are admonished, in Scripture, to “endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” not the unity of the faith. Why, the unity of the Spirit and not the unity of the faith?

Sam · #3 02-28-2009, 03:18 PM

If we read that passage in Ephesians 4:1-13 that you referenced, we are admonished to "keep" the unity of the faith. We are not told to "manufacture" or "force" the unity of the faith. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. All who have been placed into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit are in "the Church." We have one faith --we all believe in Jesus. Since we have all placed our faith in Jesus, we all have one faith. We do not all have the same doctrines and we do not all have the same convictions but we all have faith in Jesus and have been placed into Him by that faith.

In the early church there were differences of opinion. Some kept the sabbath. Some followed the dietary laws. Others kept some Jewish practices. Romans chapter 14 deals with some of these differences. We are not to judge one another on our different "convictions" or "standards." If we have "convictions" along certain lines we are to follow them and keep them to ourselves, not measure or judge one another on them.

The reason for the 5 fold ministry of Ephesians 4:11 is "for the perfecting/growth of the saints for the work of ministry/service for the edifying/building up of the body of Christ. Those gifts will be with us until we reach perfection/completion and full growth. When will that be? In my opinion, not until the rapture. In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul speaks about how all our knowledge and prophecy is partial and how we look into the Word of God and see a dim image. He says this will be so until our perfection comes. Again, in my opinion, that is the rapture when this mortal shall put on immortality and this corruptible shall put on incorruption and all our limitations will be over.

Theophil · #4 02-28-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

If we read that passage in Ephesians 4:1-13 that you referenced, we are admonished to "keep" the unity of the faith. We are not told to "manufacture" or "force" the unity of the faith. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. All who have been placed into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit are in "the Church." We have one faith --we all believe in Jesus. Since we have all placed our faith in Jesus, we all have one faith. We do not all have the same doctrines and we do not all have the same convictions but we all have faith in Jesus and have been placed into Him by that faith.

In the early church there were differences of opinion. Some kept the sabbath. Some followed the dietary laws. Others kept some Jewish practices. Romans chapter 14 deals with some of these differences. We are not to judge one another on our different "convictions" or "standards." If we have "convictions" along certain lines we are to follow them and keep them to ourselves, not measure or judge one another on them.

The reason for the 5 fold ministry of Ephesians 4:11 is "for the perfecting/growth of the saints for the work of ministry/service for the edifying/building up of the body of Christ. Those gifts will be with us until we reach perfection/completion and full growth. When will that be? In my opinion, not until the rapture. In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul speaks about how all our knowledge and prophecy is partial and how we look into the Word of God and see a dim image. He says this will be so until our perfection comes. Again, in my opinion, that is the rapture when this mortal shall put on immortality and this corruptible shall put on incorruption and all our limitations will be over.

To be more accurate, I must point out that, the scripture says ...3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I, think, Bro. Ellis, you swapped the word faith for Spirit.

I agree the "unity of the faith" will not happen until the rapture of the church and is what is being discussed in 1 Cor. 13:12-13. Therefore, until the rapture the church needs to be in 'spiritual' unity, as Rom.14; I Cor. 8; Gal. 5, etc. seem to indicate that until that time we will never reach agreement on everything, which is rather obvious.

Sam · #5 02-28-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophil

To be more accurate, I must point out that, the scripture says ...3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I, think, Bro. Ellis, you swapped the word faith for Spirit.
...

I'm glad you corrected me.
Yes, we keep the unity of the Spirit until we come to the unity of the Faith.

Unity is not union, everyone belonging to the same big organization.
Unity is not uniformity, everyone being the same or what some refer to as "cookie cutter" Christians."

Unity is like a symphony of different instruments, players, sounds, but all playing the same song and blending together under one conductor and our one Conductor is Jesus.

Theophil · #6 02-28-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I'm glad you corrected me.
Yes, we keep the unity of the Spirit until we come to the unity of the Faith.

Unity is not union, everyone belonging to the same big organization.
Unity is not uniformity, everyone being the same or what some refer to as "cookie cutter" Christians."

Unity is like a symphony of different instruments, players, sounds, but all playing the same song and blending together under one conductor and our one Conductor is Jesus.

Amos 3:3 (KJV)
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

I don’t know of 2 people who believe exactly alike on every subject.(NOT EVEN THE MOST LOVING HUSBAND AND WIFE)
I don’t know 2 Christians…not even in the same church.

I have never met 2 preachers who came close to believing the same on every doctrine of the Bible.

But I do think we, as God’s people , can AGREE.

The problem is in our understanding of the Greek word that is translated 'agree', which is the word SUMPHONEO.

4856 συμφωνέω [sumphoneo /soom·fo·neh·o/] v. From 4859; TDNT 9:304; TDNTA 1287; GK 5244; Six occurrences; AV translates as “agree” three times, “agree with” twice, and “agree together” once. 1 to agree together.

This is the word that became the word 'symphony' in our English language.

pelathais · #7 02-28-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophil

Ephesians 4:13 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What is "the unity of the faith", and when will this happen?

This will be when the "progressives" within the UPC finally root out the last vestiges of their brethren who don't feel that they need to "progress" in a direction that is clearly not Scriptural.

That is, this will happen if the "progressives" don't get eaten alive by their "uncompromising" "ultra-con" brethren first.

Felicity · #8 02-28-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

This will be when the "progressives" within the UPC finally root out the last vestiges of their brethren who don't feel that they need to "progress" in a direction that is clearly not Scriptural.

That is, this will happen if the "progressives" don't get eaten alive by their "uncompromising" "ultra-con" brethren first.

We need the whole spectrum of left to right IMO. Helps to keep something very important. Namely: BALANCE.

Michael The Disciple · #9 03-01-2009, 12:29 AM

We must agree on the foundations of our faith as we continue to come together to a more perfect understanding of the rest.

It looks like this:

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

This is Gods will. Just because we are not there is no exuse. We must press on into all truth.

Yeshua said:

13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 14:13

The Spirit strives to guide men into all the truth.

The Devil has the Church believing truth is not important. That Gods ok with all our different views and opinions.

However the Apostle John saw it much differently.

3: For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
4: I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Our faith should tell us there IS such a thing as coming into the full truth. And that its possible for it to happen to any spirit filled believer.

Theophil · #10 03-01-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We must agree on the foundations of our faith as we continue to come together to a more perfect understanding of the rest.

It looks like this:

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

This is Gods will. Just because we are not there is no exuse. We must press on into all truth.

Yeshua said:

13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 14:13

The Spirit strives to guide men into all the truth.

The Devil has the Church believing truth is not important. That Gods ok with all our different views and opinions.

However the Apostle John saw it much differently.

3: For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
4: I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Our faith should tell us there IS such a thing as coming into the full truth. And that its possible for it to happen to any spirit filled believer.

Have you or anyone you know arrived there yet? If not, when do you think you might? That is the original question of this thread.