Universal Health Care

citizen · #1 02-23-2009, 11:58 AM

Health Insurance is very expensive.

What are the cons of free or very low health insurance for everyone?

Shouldnt everyone get the same kind of medical wether they can afford it or not?

Exactly why would anyone be against it?

It seems like the Christian thing to do.

Aquila · #2 02-23-2009, 12:08 PM

It is the Christian thing to do.

We've already got universal health care in the United States. Even if you don't have insurance you can get treated in emergency rooms. Then when you're billed you just don't pay. The insurance company shoves that loss off on the rest of us who pay our insurance premiums. So far there's over 50 million Americans who are uninsured and pay NOTHING for the heath care they get. That's why WE are paying such high premiums.

Now, if we had a government health care system in which EVERYONE paid SOMETHING into the system it would mediate costs drastically. Over 30% of health care costs are currently administrative. A universal system would also cut this cost tramendously. Not to mention, a government plan would unshackle business from having to provide this for employees, citizens would carry their own government plans. It would be great for business. Right now foreign businesses don't have this extra burden, the citizens pay into a national system leaving business to do what it does best, do business and bring in a profit.

So the truth is... we already have universal health care in the US. The problem is our model is one of the most expensive on the planet.

n david · #3 02-23-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

We've already got universal health care in the United States. Even if you don't have insurance you can get treated in emergency rooms. Then when you're billed you just don't pay. The insurance company shoves that loss off on the rest of us who pay our insurance premiums. So far there's over 50 million Americans who are uninsured and pay NOTHING for the heath care they get. That's why WE are paying such high premiums.

You forgot to include that should you try to use this "free" service, your credit will be seriously affected and you'll have collectors calling all the time.

Before we were married, my wife had ER bills w/out insurance which has been a pain to take care of.

It's not free. It's really not any of the above. It's a pain to clean credit from.

Also I'm absolutely against socialism in all forms, including socialized universal health care.

Aquila · #4 02-23-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

You forgot to include that should you try to use this "free" service, your credit will be seriously affected and you'll have collectors calling all the time.

Before we were married, my wife had ER bills w/out insurance which has been a pain to take care of.

It's not free. It's really not any of the above. It's a pain to clean credit from.

Also I'm absolutely against socialism in all forms, including socialized universal health care.

Ummm...no one has said anything about anything being "free". The point is that the uninsured and underinsured are treated and often pay late (as in your case) or never pay anything at all. The creditors might call you all day and your credit's shot. Those are your unique issues and I'm sure you and your family can deal with that. My issue is that my family's insurance premium has nearly doubled because of late payers and non-payers.

Our current health care system is terrible. Imagine that the auto sales industry was run this way. Let's assume that anyone who walked onto a car lot could conceivably drive away with a new car, even the homeless. Now, vast numbers of people would be driving away with new cars and paying NOTHING toward them. To make up for this loss what do you think these auto sales people are going to do with that loss? They're going to pass it down to you and me. You'd see automobile prices shoot rocket to unaffordable rates until the industry collapsed due to no one being able to afford new cars. This is why the auto sales industry only sells vehicles to those who can afford them or have the credit and the ability to make payments. They deny people car loans every day. This mediates their loss.

Now...if the health care industry simply turned people away if they were uninsured or underinsured our health insurance premiums would drop significantly because they'd cut all that loss. But bubba, that's not going to happen. So we need a system where EVERYONE PAYS SOMETHING toward their health care. We also need to get business out of the loop so they can do business without this weight being on them. Our companies aren't as competitive as other foreign companies because our companies have this to deal with. It's just not fair to American business to expect them to shoulder this burden.

And you can say you're against socialism all day long if you like... but here's the deal...we already have a universal system. The only thing is that the industry has learned to profit off the loss caused by the uninsured by turning and milking the rest of us to make up for the loss...in addition to helping them meet their profit margins.

n david · #5 02-23-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ummm...no one has said anything about anything being "free".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

So far there's over 50 million Americans who are uninsured and pay NOTHING for the heath care they get. That's why WE are paying such high premiums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

And you can say you're against socialism all day long if you like... but here's the deal...we already have a universal system. The only thing is that the industry has learned to profit off the loss caused by the uninsured by turning and milking the rest of us to make up for the loss...in addition to helping them meet their profit margins.

I don't buy that premiums have been increased on those who have insurance. I have great insurance through my employment. I believe the loss is made up through taxes from everyone.

Then again, I'm not at all an expert in the heathcare field.

I just don't believe it's the federal governments job to say who will be able to get what surgery, and oh yeah, this person should just live with their condition because they're old. (Tom Daschle's idea of universal healthcare = government picks and chooses who gets what. This is was was passed with the "stimulus" bill)

Aquila · #6 02-23-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I don't buy that premiums have been increased on those who have insurance. I have great insurance through my employment. I believe the loss is made up through taxes from everyone.

Then again, I'm not at all an expert in the heathcare field.

I just don't believe it's the federal governments job to say who will be able to get what surgery, and oh yeah, this person should just live with their condition because they're old. (Tom Daschle's idea of universal healthcare = government picks and chooses who gets what. This is was was passed with the "stimulus" bill)

That's not true. Sometimes I want to slap my forehead because there are so many myths out there about universal health insurance it's down right silly. Most of your plans will still be through private insurance companies with the very same plans you have now. The only difference is that the government would subsidize your premiums.

SOUNWORTHY · #7 02-23-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I don't buy that premiums have been increased on those who have insurance. I have great insurance through my employment. I believe the loss is made up through taxes from everyone.

Then again, I'm not at all an expert in the heathcare field.

I just don't believe it's the federal governments job to say who will be able to get what surgery, and oh yeah, this person should just live with their condition because they're old. (Tom Daschle's idea of universal healthcare = government picks and chooses who gets what. This is was was passed with the "stimulus" bill)

My wife's and my insurance have gone up $46.00 a month since Jan. 1. and we are paying more for pre pay on prescriptions.

Aquila · #8 02-23-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I don't buy that premiums have been increased on those who have insurance. I have great insurance through my employment. I believe the loss is made up through taxes from everyone.

It's handled on a state by state basis. Some states allow health care providers to write off 20%-30% of their losses, fewer maybe more. In the end the significant amount of that loss is handed down to you and me.

WyoPastor · #9 02-23-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I don't buy that premiums have been increased on those who have insurance. I have great insurance through my employment. I believe the loss is made up through taxes from everyone.

Then again, I'm not at all an expert in the heathcare field.

You haven't been paying my premiums then. Where I used to pay $200 a month for my share of the costs, now I pay almost $600 for less coverage.

A few less deadbeats and illegals would sure help.

pelathais · #10 02-23-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

It is the Christian thing to do.

We've already got universal health care in the United States. Even if you don't have insurance you can get treated in emergency rooms. Then when you're billed you just don't pay. The insurance company shoves that loss off on the rest of us who pay our insurance premiums. So far there's over 50 million Americans who are uninsured and pay NOTHING for the heath care they get. That's why WE are paying such high premiums.

Now, if we had a government health care system in which EVERYONE paid SOMETHING into the system it would mediate costs drastically. Over 30% of health care costs are currently administrative. A universal system would also cut this cost tramendously. Not to mention, a government plan would unshackle business from having to provide this for employees, citizens would carry their own government plans. It would be great for business. Right now foreign businesses don't have this extra burden, the citizens pay into a national system leaving business to do what it does best, do business and bring in a profit.

So the truth is... we already have universal health care in the US. The problem is our model is one of the most expensive on the planet.

That's because the biller is insulated from the consumer. Introduce regular market forces and costs could be contained. Also, we have a plethora of empty hospital beds in many urban areas but a dearth of them in many rural areas.

It probably all comes down to some bean counting bureaucrat in Ohio gumming up the works. Paint that guy's office a soothing color with some of the "stimulus" money and the whole system will clear itself out in a few days.