The Pro's and Con's of the Apostolic Church

stmatthew · #1 07-15-2008, 05:32 PM

Thought maybe we could have some edifying discussion here, and maybe brainstorm some answers to better the body of Christ.

Part 1

What do you see as positives of the Apostolic church in general??

What do you think we can do to make it even better??

Part 2

What do you see as negatives of the Apostolic church in general??

What do you think we can do to turn around these negatives and improve it??

stmatthew · #2 07-15-2008, 05:59 PM

......here is a serious thread from a goofball poster.

Pressing-On · #3 07-15-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Thought maybe we could have some edifying discussion here, and maybe brainstorm some answers to better the body of Christ.

Part 1

What do you see as positives of the Apostolic church in general??
The worship and anointed preaching.

What do you think we can do to make it even better??
No other answer, IMO, than sincere prayer.

Part 2

What do you see as negatives of the Apostolic church in general??
I don't see the prayer rooms being as important as they were in times past. Some of the music promotes the talent and not vertical worship.

What do you think we can do to turn around these negatives and improve it??

Again, no other answer, IMO, than sincere prayer. We get no where if we don't pray. We can't be holy, right, directed, humble or forgiving if we don't have sincere prayer in our lives. Prayer moves mountains and changes us from the inside out.

Jack Shephard · #4 07-15-2008, 06:21 PM

This could take all day...

Pro's-in general most of the churches do well with community support inside our doors and helping the needs of the saints. Decent teaching on faith. Many great preachers and leaders.

Con#1-We can do better at teaching mid-teens and older better about how to live as a married person. Teach better control on finances, raising kids, sexual realations, etc. We teach them with words and actions a certain way. We spend all our money and have more month at the end of the money and teach how sinful sex is and hardly ever teach about how they should raise kids other than to say 'raise them in the church.' We teach them these things all their lives and then in 3 months of marriage counseling we try to reteach them all these things and we wonder why more than half our marriages fail.

Con#2-too many elitists. 'my way or the highway' is the phrase that comes to mind.

Con#3-we have lost focus on fellowship and replaced it with focus on running an organization or a business. NOT GOOD.

Con#4-we call ourselves the church, but we don't show all the characteristics of 'the church'. We are part of the body of Christ we are not 'the' body of Christ. While there are some churches that have great things for the community like POA and others, the majority of us could not use community in the name of our churches cause we don't even touch the community. We would be the classic example of bait and switch. The thing is we have a niche,the power of the HG. It is available to everyone, but we claim we have it all. We say we are right at the expense of damning others. Most of our members have no real clue what grace and mercy are. Ask them to explain grace and mercy you'd be shocked at the answers, mostlikely. We teach it to sinners to help 'reach' them, but fail to practice what we preach.

Just a few thoughts..

Cindy · #5 07-15-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This could take all day...

Pro's-in general most of the churches do well with community support inside our doors and helping the needs of the saints. Decent teaching on faith. Many great preachers and leaders.

Con#1-We can do better at teaching mid-teens and older better about how to live as a married person. Teach better control on finances, raising kids, sexual realations, etc. We teach them with words and actions a certain way. We spend all our money and have more month at the end of the money and teach how sinful sex is and hardly ever teach about how they should raise kids other than to say 'raise them in the church.' We teach them these things all their lives and then in 3 months of marriage counseling we try to reteach them all these things and we wonder why more than half our marriages fail.

Con#2-too many elitists. 'my way or the highway' is the phrase that comes to mind.

Con#3-we have lost focus on fellowship and replaced it with focus on running an organization or a business. NOT GOOD.

Con#4-we call ourselves the church, but we don't show all the characteristics of 'the church'. We are part of the body of Christ we are not 'the' body of Christ. While there are some churches that have great things for the community like POA and others, the majority of us could not use community in the name of our churches cause we don't even touch the community. We would be the classic example of bait and switch. The thing is we have a niche,the power of the HG. It is available to everyone, but we claim we have it all. We say we are right at the expense of damning others. Most of our members have no real clue what grace and mercy are. Ask them to explain grace and mercy you'd be shocked at the answers, mostlikely. We teach it to sinners to help 'reach' them, but fail to practice what we preach.

Just a few thoughts..

Your Con #1 JT. Why is any of that the church's job and not the parents?

Jack Shephard · #6 07-16-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Your Con #1 JT. Why is any of that the church's job and not the parents?

Well the church should be backing up what the parents teach the kids at home. But often times the parents are trying to back up at home what the church teaches. It can make it difficult on the parents, at times, when the church is saying one thing as the 'voice of God' and the parents are trying to teach them differently. Example, when I was growing up all I and others heard in church about sex is how sinful it is. Abstain and it is damnable, etc. While this in true in the context of premarital sexual relations it is not true while done in marriage. My friends in my age group there were all taught this way. About 10 of us have strong marriages because our parents fought against the teaching that sex=sin and taught us that it is a God appointed thing. About 15 of my friends that were not taught like us have failed marriages or at the least very bad marriages do to these reasons.

I agree the parents are the best teachers of these things, but if the church were to take a proactive approach on these topics, money, sex, family life, etc. then it will make it easier, I believe, on the youth once they are married. The church spends a lifetime teaching kids and people how bad sex is and not teaching about money and how one should raise their kids. But, in 2-3 months of marriage counselling they church tries to reteach them and they have to try and relearn a lifetime of teaching. I think it would make it a MUCH easier transition from single life to married life if the church was proactive as opposed to reactive, because often the church is reactive. They try to stop the bleeding in pastor counsel 5 years into marriage and the damage is done. JMHO

Cindy · #7 07-16-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Well the church should be backing up what the parents teach the kids at home. But often times the parents are trying to back up at home what the church teaches. It can make it difficult on the parents, at times, when the church is saying one thing as the 'voice of God' and the parents are trying to teach them differently. Example, when I was growing up all I and others heard in church about sex is how sinful it is. Abstain and it is damnable, etc. While this in true in the context of premarital sexual relations it is not true while done in marriage. My friends in my age group there were all taught this way. About 10 of us have strong marriages because our parents fought against the teaching that sex=sin and taught us that it is a God appointed thing. About 15 of my friends that were not taught like us have failed marriages or at the least very bad marriages do to these reasons.

I agree the parents are the best teachers of these things, but if the church were to take a proactive approach on these topics, money, sex, family life, etc. then it will make it easier, I believe, on the youth once they are married. The church spends a lifetime teaching kids and people how bad sex is and not teaching about money and how one should raise their kids. But, in 2-3 months of marriage counselling they church tries to reteach them and they have to try and relearn a lifetime of teaching. I think it would make it a MUCH easier transition from single life to married life if the church was proactive as opposed to reactive, because often the church is reactive. They try to stop the bleeding in pastor counsel 5 years into marriage and the damage is done. JMHO

Do you think many times kids hear things from the pulpit they don't hear at home on these subjects, biblically I mean? The parents and the church should equip kids to live in this world, especially now.

Jack Shephard · #8 07-16-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Do you think many times kids hear things from the pulpit they don't hear at home on these subjects, biblically I mean? The parents and the church should equip kids to live in this world, especially now.

I think that it should go hand in hand, but from what I have experienced is that often times they don't. It is not limited to these topics either, but these are where the church should begin to focus on. This can really help to firm up marriges in our movement. A lot of mainstream non-denominal churches already do this. They are seeing good results. Some of them teach often on these topics.

Jack Shephard · #9 07-16-2008, 11:08 AM

Pastor P and others...

I think these questions beg to be asked. Do the Pro's out weigh the Con's? Do they balance each other out or does a bad Con out weight a good Pro?

What do you all think?

As for me I think that Con's far out weigh the Pro's. I am not saying there are more Con's which there could be, but I think that anything negative does greater damage to our name and our movement than the Pro's help push us forward. JMO

Nahum · #10 07-16-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Pastor P and others...

I think these questions beg to be asked. Do the Pro's out weigh the Con's? Do they balance each other out or does a bad Con out weight a good Pro?

What do you all think?

As for me I think that Con's far out weigh the Pro's. I am not saying there are more Con's which there could be, but I think that anything negative does greater damage to our name and our movement than the Pro's help push us forward. JMO

Wow, that's a lot of ground to cover.

In a nutshell, I don't think I, as a pastor, should be concerned about anything other than solid doctrinal teaching, Spirit-filled worship, and an incessant attempt to gather souls into God's kingdom.

I think the key word is balance.