Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The D.A.'s Office
Facebook

Notices

The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:34 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagicHair

The following is an exchange Bishop Bernard and I had today via email.
-----------------------------------------

Esteemed,

Your thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
www.holymagichair.com (click here)


D. Alicea

----------------------------------------------------------
His response:


1. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. Our faith issues forth in obedience, so that as we walk by faith we will endeavor to obey God’s Word. God’s grace, which we receive through faith, is God’s work in us. He progressively transforms us so that we have the desire and power to do His will. Of course, we have the responsibility to let God’s work be manifest in our lives. (See Philippians 2:12-13; Titus 2:11-12; Hebrews 12:10, 14.)


2. We cannot earn favors from God through our works. Likewise, we are not exempt from the trials of life simply because we serve God. (See I Corinthians 10:13; I Peter 5:9.) At the same time, God does honor our faith in many ways, so that by our prayer of faith we can receive many miraculous answers, avoid many unnecessary temptations, and receive divine supply for many needs. (See Matthew 6:11-13; Philippians 4:19.)


3. Regarding hair, and specifically the reference to angels in I Corinthians 11:10, below is an excerpt from my book In Search of Holiness, rev. ed. 2006.


Bro. Bernard

Quote:
New Testament teaching. We now turn to the New Testament teaching on hair as found in I Corinthians 11:1-16. Most denominational churches ignore this passage, concluding that it does not apply today. Some interpret it to mean that women must pray with some type of cloth on their heads. Most conservative churches at one time taught women to have long hair, and some continue to do so today.

All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God (II Timothy 3:16). We should not ignore any passage of Scripture, for each is precious and important. We should especially heed instructions to the New Testament church, for we are part of that church. Let us analyze this passage of Scripture in that light.

Verses 1-2. Paul admonished believers to follow him and to keep the ordinances or teachings that he had delivered to them. Among these ordinances is his teaching concerning hair in the subsequent verses.

Verse 3. God is the head of Christ. As a human, Jesus submitted to the eternal Spirit of God that dwelt in Him, thereby setting an example for us. Christ subjected His flesh to the plan and purpose of God, even unto death (Philippians 2:8).

Similarly, Christ is the head of the man, and the man is the head of the woman. God intends for the man to be the leader of the family. He is to be the spiritual representative of the home. In the beginning, God held Adam primarily accountable for human sinfulness. The sins of fathers particularly affect children (Exodus 20:5). Moreover, a woman is to respect the leadership of her own husband (Ephesians 5:22; Colossians 3:18; I Peter 3:1).

Verse 4. A man should not have his head covered when he prays or prophesies. If he does, he dishonors his head or leader, namely, Christ. Prophesying includes any anointed preaching and testimony.

Verse 5. A woman who prays or prophesies (including preaching and testimony) with her head uncovered dishonors her head or leader, which is the man. In other words, the sexes should not try to change places. The woman’s covering is a sign of her role in God’s plan. According to verse 15, long hair is the symbolic covering that God has given her, and according to verse 6 it should be unshorn or uncut.

Verse 6. If a woman is not going to cover her head (by letting her hair grow long), then this is equivalent to cutting off her hair. But this is a disgrace or a shame to her. It signifies the taking away of her glory in God’s sight. Since it is a shame for her hair to be shorn (cut) or shaved, she should be covered (let her hair grow long).

Verses 7-9. Adam was created in the image of God and subsequently Eve was also (Genesis 1:26-27). The man is the representative of the family before God, with the authority and responsibility to provide for his family, protect his family, and lead his family spiritually. As a sign of his position, his head should not be covered (with long hair, verse 14). The woman originally came from the man (Genesis 2:22). She is his partner, a helper comparable to him (Genesis 2:20), who respects his position and follows his godly leadership. Woman is the crowning glory of man. To demonstrate this relationship, her head should be covered (verse 6) with her glory, which is her long hair (verse 15). In short, male and female are equally important in God’s plan, but their roles are distinct, and God wants this distinction to be displayed and preserved outwardly by their hair.

Verse 10. The angels are involved with this subject, as they observe the obedience or disobedience of humans to God’s plan. The angels desire to look into our salvation (I Peter 1:12). Pride and rebellion caused the fall of Satan and many angels (I Timothy 3:6; Isaiah 14:12-15). Thus, a woman should have “power” on her head on her head as an example to the angels. The Greek word here is exousia, meaning “authority,” and in this context it indicates a mark or sign of authority. The angels look to see if women have the sign of consecration, submission, and power with God, or if they are rebellious like Satan. Women’s hair shows the angels whether or not the church is submissive to Christ, the head of the church.

Verses 11-12. Women are not inferior to men, and men are not complete without women. Both depend on each other. This principle of complementarity and interdependence is especially true in the church. The roles are different, however, and God has designated the man to be the leader of the family.

Verse 13. Paul used a question as a part of his teaching method. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God uncovered? His answer is no; it is a shame for her to do so (verse 5).

Verse 14. Nature, not just custom, teaches a man to have short hair but a woman to have long hair. Since God is the Creator of nature, the teaching of nature in this situation comes from God. God’s purpose is to make a distinction of the sexes in this area.

Verse 15. A woman’s hair is given for her glory and for a covering to satisfy the requirements of the preceding verses. This verse does not mention any other covering such as a hat or scarf. It would be difficult for a woman to put on a scarf every time she prays or witnesses to someone, especially if she prays without ceasing (I Thessalonians 5:17). This verse explains that a woman does not have to wear a veil of cloth; her hair is sufficient covering.

The Greek word for “have long hair” here is koma¯o, which means “wear long hair, let one’s hair grow long”3 or “wear tresses of hair.”4 The word for “covered” in verse 6 is katakalupt¯o, meaning “to cover wholly, i.e., to veil.”5 The word for “covering” in verse 15 is peribolaion, which is “something thrown around one, i.e., a mantle, veil.”6 Thus, verses 5-6 teach that a woman’s head should be covered wholly or veiled. Verse 15 says her hair is a mantle or veil; it is a symbolic article of apparel for the head. Clearly, long hair is the covering that meets the requirements of verses 5, 6, and 13.

Verse 16. The people of God are not contentious. The church has no custom of being contentious over the teachings of God’s Word. It has no custom regarding hair other than what Paul had just described. Some say this verse means that if anyone disagrees with these teachings then obedience is not required. If this were true, however, then Paul’s entire teaching in this section would be in vain, and he would be condoning contention and disobedience. Paul would not say, “If you do not have such a custom, then you are not required to obey the Word of God and the ordinances of the church.” Reading verses 2 and 16 together, the message is that we should obey these teachings instead of being contentious.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:

Thank you, Elder, for taking your time to write a reasoned and bible based response.

Based on your response, I think some safe inferences can be made about your position on this matter.

I believe your voice is needed to bringing clarity to this issue in preservation of our common heritage.

Be blessed and continued prosperity,
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:47 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Elder Bernard has always be gracious in his responses ... he was just as genteel when I turned in my license in the fall of 2006.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:49 PM
Cindy's Avatar
Cindy Cindy is offline
Forever Loved Admin


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

He really explained questions on this subject very well.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:06 AM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,649
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Just more error from my perspective. Nothing there about uncut hair. It does say LONG HAIR. And it is pretty clear that two coverings are being discussed. The one Paul is actually dealing with at the start is a covering to put over the head WHEN ONE PRAYS OR PROPHESIES. A choice is given to the Woman. She can cover or not cover when PRAYING OR PROPHESYING.

The second covering mentioned is the hair. The covering given BY NATURE
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:09 AM
StMark StMark is offline
Pot Stirrer


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,102
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Preservation of our common heritage???/
Explain what you meant by that Dan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-13-2008, 02:43 AM
Jermyn Davidson's Avatar
Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,918
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

From reading the passage Bernard quotes, it seems to me that Paul makes the case that the head of the woman is the man and it is the man the is dishonored by her short hair.

The woman is to submit to the man and to show this submission, she should not have short hair.

Question: if the Bible passages that say "cover her head" actually means "uncut hair", why doesn't the Bible just come right out and say plainly, uncut hair?

Is it because the "spirit" of this verse is that the woman should have longer hair than the man to emphasize her submission and thus, her glory?

Something I just got from thinking about this-- submission is glorious!

Wouldn't a literal or strict adherence of this passage require that men have shaved heads?
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-13-2008, 09:38 AM
Cindy's Avatar
Cindy Cindy is offline
Forever Loved Admin


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
From reading the passage Bernard quotes, it seems to me that Paul makes the case that the head of the woman is the man and it is the man the is dishonored by her short hair.

The woman is to submit to the man and to show this submission, she should not have short hair.

Question: if the Bible passages that say "cover her head" actually means "uncut hair", why doesn't the Bible just come right out and say plainly, uncut hair?

Is it because the "spirit" of this verse is that the woman should have longer hair than the man to emphasize her submission and thus, her glory?

Something I just got from thinking about this-- submission is glorious!

Wouldn't a literal or strict adherence of this passage require that men have shaved heads?
Mike, that has been my belief all along. That submission is glorious.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-13-2008, 04:48 AM
Jekyll's Avatar
Jekyll Jekyll is offline
Communion at AFF


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,396
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Dan just wanted to display his reverence to an esteemed man. Pat yourself on the back, DA


lol


Now, I would be remiss if I tried to guess on his answer about what you were really asking here. I would also expect no more nor less than the answer he provided you.
__________________
"Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd; but I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God..."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-13-2008, 06:11 AM
timlan2057's Avatar
timlan2057 timlan2057 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 496
Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Hmmm ... nice safe answer.

Bernard is a master politician. He's from Louisiana originally and with his missionary background, he no doubt has spent a bit of time at the feet of T. F. Tenney

I'm reading Lyndon Johnson's biography: "Master of the Senate", covering the years when LBJ was Senate Majority Leader.

LBJ's allies wondered why he wouldn't take on Joe McCarthy even when he had the votes in his corner for censure.

McCarthy and McCarthyism raged on for two more years, destroying many innocent people and ruining many careers before LBJ finally used his influence to ram through censureship on the Wisconsin demagogue.

LBJ knew his chief financiers, reactionary Texas oil men like Clint Murchinson and H. L. Hunt, backed McCarthy to the hilt and politics ALWAYS takes precedence over principle for ambitious men.

Bernard knows he'll never be General Superintendent by taking on Stoneking directly. There's still a bunch of Stoneking fanatics with rose-colored glasses who can't or won't accept the fact he's promoting heresy.

If Bernard and others are really Watchmen on the Wall, there comes a time when you have to use your influence and aura to take on what you consider to be "false doctrine" and the propagators of such.

Lyndon Johnson's beloved hill country and Johnson City are in the Austin area.

Kinda ironic.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-13-2008, 06:31 AM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
delete account


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,086
Cool Re: D. Bernard shares his thoughts about HolyMagic

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlan2057 View Post
Hmmm ... nice safe answer.

Bernard is a master politician. He's from Louisiana originally and with his missionary background, he no doubt has spent a bit of time at the feet of T. F. Tenney

I'm reading Lyndon Johnson's biography: "Master of the Senate", covering the years when LBJ was Senate Majority Leader.

LBJ's allies wondered why he wouldn't take on Joe McCarthy even when he had the votes in his corner for censure.

McCarthy and McCarthyism raged on for two more years, destroying many innocent people and ruining many careers before LBJ finally used his influence to ram through censureship on the Wisconsin demagogue.

Bernard knows he'll never be General Superintendent by taking on Stoneking directly. There's still a bunch of Stoneking fanatics with rose-colored glasses who can't or won't accept the fact he's promoting heresy.

If Bernard and others are really Watchmen on the Wall, there comes a time when you have to use your influence and aura to take on what you consider to be "false doctrine" and the propagators of such.

Lyndon Johnson's beloved hill country and Johnson City are in the Austin area.

Kinda ironic.
Tim,

I will have to disagree with you here. DB is not a politician but an intellectual. Me thinks your judgement is clouded by the things you have suffered.

Bro. Bernard has adequately addressed the issue but does not personalize to cast guilt and blame upon others, but lays the truth before you and leaves it to you to accept or reject.

I have to give credit to Daniel Alicea for going straight to one of UPCI's most studied intellectual to ask and you have to admire Bro. Bernard for speaking out even if it is against the pillars of the UPCI.

Knowing Ruth and what she has went through...she had to hold on tightly to what he was taught in order to make sense of her situation even if in the rationalizing she was off track. We all do this from time to time, but not all of us have a published book.

The Bible tells us in Corintians that we all see through a glass darkly...but one day we will know the complete and clear truth. Until then all we can do is throw out our hypotheses and try to disprove tehm.

Blessings, Rhoni
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bloggers & Readers Wanted: HolyMagicHair.com SDG The D.A.'s Office 64 07-08-2008 03:12 PM
* D. Bernard speaks out against forum * SecretWarrior The Tab 290 12-07-2007 05:17 PM
Bernard on TV, Tulsa, and Togetherness TK Burk Fellowship Hall 288 11-25-2007 11:05 PM
*** Newsflash: D Bernard Speaks Out on TV Debate and Upcoming GC*** SDG The D.A.'s Office 92 09-26-2007 03:03 PM
Dave Bernard addresses beards freeatlast Fellowship Hall 542 06-10-2007 10:47 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Amanah
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.