Are we truly BLOOD WASHED?

mizpeh · #1 05-18-2008, 02:24 PM

Can we take these verses literally? Does the blood purge, cleanse, and wash us from our sins? Is there a literal circumcision made without hands in our hearts by the Spirit and the blood of Christ? Rom 2:29, Col 2:11

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelations 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

pelathais · #2 05-18-2008, 02:50 PM

The atonement cleanses us from the consequences of our sins (for example the final judgment of death) , and one consequence of sin is further sin (James 1:13-27). Also, according to that same passage, there is a temptation that will come upon believers that would have had to be "divine" in origin if believers were completely "free" from the ability to sin. James argues that such temptation comes from the things that still lie within our human natures.

Rhoni · #3 05-18-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The atonement cleanses us from the consequences of our sins (for example the final judgment of death) , and one consequence of sin is further sin (James 1:13-27). Also, according to that same passage, there is a temptation that will come upon believers that would have had to be "divine" in origin if believers were completely "free" from the ability to sin. James argues that such temptation comes from the things that still lie within our human natures.

I'll have to think and pray about this one...along with something Timmy said a while back.

Blessings, Rhoni

mizpeh · #4 05-18-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The atonement cleanses us from the consequences of our sins (for example the final judgment of death) , and one consequence of sin is further sin (James 1:13-27). Also, according to that same passage, there is a temptation that will come upon believers that would have had to be "divine" in origin if believers were completely "free" from the ability to sin. James argues that such temptation comes from the things that still lie within our human natures.

Okay, but I'm not talking about sinful flesh. Rom 7 If we were completely free from the ability to sin, we would not need the Spirit to help us mortify the deeds of the body.Rom 8:13

What I'm getting at is Do you believe the blood of Christ is literally sprinkled upon us? Is the blood applied to our souls? Is that how sin is remitted? (kind of like Ivory soap or Tide detergent, not trying to be profane)

The verses I quoted seem to point to the blood of Christ not cleansing us from the consequence of sin but cleansing us from sin stains on our soul, the body of sin.

Sam · #5 05-18-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Okay, but I'm not talking about sinful flesh. Rom 7 If we were completely free from the ability to sin, we would not need the Spirit to help us mortify the deeds of the body.Rom 8:13

What I'm getting at is Do you believe the blood of Christ is literally sprinkled upon us? Is the blood applied to our souls? Is that how sin is remitted? (kind of like Ivory soap or Tide detergent, not trying to be profane)

The verses I quoted seem to point to the blood of Christ not cleansing us from the consequence of sin but cleansing us from sin stains on our soul, the body of sin.

When Jesus was beaten and the crown of thorns placed on His head, He lost some blood. Then when He was nailed to the cross He lost some more. As He hung on the cross, more blood was shed. Then after He died on the cross one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear and blood and water came out. There are differences of opinion on what this water was. Some think it was water that had built up around His heart. Some think the spear may have pierced a kidney and the water was urine (although at His death perhaps both his bowels and kidneys drained while He was still on the cross.) Jesus would have had 5 quarts or a little less in His body while alive. I would guess that most, if not all of it, would have drained from His body by the time He died. Some may have been trapped in various areas of His body. In my opinion, the literal blood of Jesus soaked into the ground and was dried up (or possibly consumed by scavengers).

In the OT as animals were offered as sacrifice but their blood did not physically cleanse/literally cleanse people. In the case of the priests, blood was applied to the ear, right hand, and right foot at their consecration, but ordinarily blood did not touch humans. Yet, they were considered clean. David prayed, "blot out my transgression,... wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,... cleanse me from my sin,.... purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean, ... blot out all my iniquities..." in Psalm 51. David received forgiveness and cleansing from sin. Here there was no literal animal blood applied. In my opinion it is the same in the NT. The blood of Jesus is not literally applied, but in the sight of God we are cleansed. Terms like washed in the blood are symbolic.

mizpeh · #6 05-19-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

When Jesus was beaten and the crown of thorns placed on His head, He lost some blood. Then when He was nailed to the cross He lost some more. As He hung on the cross, more blood was shed. Then after He died on the cross one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear and blood and water came out. There are differences of opinion on what this water was. Some think it was water that had built up around His heart. Some think the spear may have pierced a kidney and the water was urine (although at His death perhaps both his bowels and kidneys drained while He was still on the cross.) Jesus would have had 5 quarts or a little less in His body while alive. I would guess that most, if not all of it, would have drained from His body by the time He died. Some may have been trapped in various areas of His body. In my opinion, the literal blood of Jesus soaked into the ground and was dried up (or possibly consumed by scavengers).

In the OT as animals were offered as sacrifice but their blood did not physically cleanse/literally cleanse people. In the case of the priests, blood was applied to the ear, right hand, and right foot at their consecration, but ordinarily blood did not touch humans. Yet, they were considered clean. David prayed, "blot out my transgression,... wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,... cleanse me from my sin,.... purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean, ... blot out all my iniquities..." in Psalm 51. David received forgiveness and cleansing from sin. Here there was no literal animal blood applied. In my opinion it is the same in the NT. The blood of Jesus is not literally applied, but in the sight of God we are cleansed. Terms like washed in the blood are symbolic.

Thanks Sam. I don't believe the literal blood of Jesus is applied to our hearts to removed the body of sin. But you haven't addressed the verses that teach we are cleansed from our sins by the blood in saying the Bible writers are using symbollic language.

pelathais · #7 05-19-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Okay, but I'm not talking about sinful flesh. Rom 7 If we were completely free from the ability to sin, we would not need the Spirit to help us mortify the deeds of the body.Rom 8:13

What I'm getting at is Do you believe the blood of Christ is literally sprinkled upon us? Is the blood applied to our souls? Is that how sin is remitted? (kind of like Ivory soap or Tide detergent, not trying to be profane)

The verses I quoted seem to point to the blood of Christ not cleansing us from the consequence of sin but cleansing us from sin stains on our soul, the body of sin.

I am in agreement with Sam's view here. For the blood to "literally" touch and cleanse everyone we would need for sacrifices to still be made. The blood of Jesus Christ was "presented" before God as a sacrifice and the benefits were then accounted to those who believe by faith.

mizpeh · #8 05-19-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

I am in agreement with Sam's view here. For the blood to "literally" touch and cleanse everyone we would need for sacrifices to still be made. The blood of Jesus Christ was "presented" before God as a sacrifice and the benefits were then accounted to those who believe by faith.

The blood remits sin. And remission happens at baptism by faith in Jesus atonement on the cross.

This is perhaps one of the biggest mysteries to me along with the incarnation. From my experiences, I felt clean on the inside after I was baptized in Jesus name. And once after I was baptized when I was praying for forgiveness, with my eyes closed, I saw a red liquid substance come down upon me before my eyes. I know we are told our experiences are subjective and we must go by the word of God alone, but the word of God, IMO, confirms these experiences. We are somehow washed in the blood of Christ, whether literal or symbollic, I'm not sure. And somehow sin leaves some type of mark upon us that makes it necessary to be cleansed. Acts 22:16

Thanks for the responses, but I'm not satisfied you've answered my questions.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelations 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,