Laodiceans, Has the church become Laodiceans?

[robert]

I've heard Political ideology described as left...middle...right. Also as liberal...moderate...conservative. The church has chosen it seems to use this same terminology. I can't understand why? Aren't we supposed to distance ourselves from the things of this world? Revelation may be where the world came up with these words...but Revelation says it like this, cold...lukewarm...hot. (Revelation 3:15-16) As God explains it...
cold is bad...lukewarm is the worst...hot is good. Fire is always used in a positive way, it purifies, it was used during the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost experience as a symbol of God's Spirit coming to God's people. Here is the point of this thread.
Is cold: liberal, left, bad.
Is lukewarm: middle, moderate, to be spued out.
Is hot: right, conservative, good.
People are using political terminology to state their position of belief. I express myself as a conservative, right, hot...Apostolic, and I feel good about it. What is your preferance. liberal,moderate, conservative......left,middle,right....or cold, lukewarm, hot.

Revelation 3: 14-19...
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;These things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot. I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increasing with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I council thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mightest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by robert

I've heard Political ideology described as left...middle...right. Also as liberal...moderate...conservative. The church has chosen it seems to use this same terminology. I can't understand why? Aren't we supposed to distance ourselves from the things of this world? Revelation may be where the world came up with these words...but Revelation says it like this, cold...lukewarm...hot. (Revelation 3:15-16) As God explains it...
cold is bad...lukewarm is the worst...hot is good. Fire is always used in a positive way, it purifies, it was used during the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost experience as a symbol of God's Spirit coming to God's people. Here is the point of this thread.
Is cold: liberal, left, bad.
Is lukewarm: middle, moderate, to be spued out.
Is hot: right, conservative, good.
People are using political terminology to state their position of belief. I express myself as a conservative, right, hot...Apostolic, and I feel good about it. What is your preferance. liberal,moderate, conservative......left,middle,right....or cold, lukewarm, hot.

Revelation 3: 14-19...
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;These things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot. I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increasing with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I council thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mightest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent

I like the way you think, AMEN
Dan"D

[CC1]

robert,

Like many you have just taken scripture and made an application of it that suits your thinking.

In your mind someone who is what is labeled "liberal" in Pentecost is "cold" because in your mind they are not "holy" and are "sinning". However that is in your mind not in the Bible.

What I am saying is that what you yourself consider cold or lukewarm may not be so according to the Bible.

The application you made is one done by all sorts of judgemental people and as Elder Epley has noted "everybody is a liberal to somebody".

I don't know just how conservative you are but for a moment lets assume you are a moderately conservative UPC type. You would place me as one of those cold liberals and yourself as "hot". However if you wear short sleeves, watch church videos in your home, or wear a wedding ring you would be considered "cold" by ultra conservatives.

These personal perspectives mean nothing. It is the word of God that means everything and that is what I live by.

[robert]

Originally Posted by CC1

robert,

Like many you have just taken scripture and made an application of it that suits your thinking.

In your mind someone who is what is labeled "liberal" in Pentecost is "cold" because in your mind they are not "holy" and are "sinning". However that is in your mind not in the Bible.

What I am saying is that what you yourself consider cold or lukewarm may not be so according to the Bible.

The application you made is one done by all sorts of judgemental people and as Elder Epley has noted "everybody is a liberal to somebody".

I don't know just how conservative you are but for a moment lets assume you are a moderately conservative UPC type. You would place me as one of those cold liberals and yourself as "hot". However if you wear short sleeves, watch church videos in your home, or wear a wedding ring you would be considered "cold" by ultra conservatives.

These personal perspectives mean nothing. It is the word of God that means everything and that is what I live by.

I agree with your opinion that I did think this could be a possibility as to what is meant by these scriptures. Using political terminology as an analogy to cold, hot, and luke warm. You don't agree with my analogy, but do you at least agree with the scriptures. Doesn't God say to be one way or the other and not to be a compromiser. It seems cold could be refering to sinners, lukewarm to hypocrits and hot to those that are trying with all of their ability to please and obey God. Would my thoughts as I discribe them here be my own application of thinking or a probable interpretation of these scriptures. It seams you are trying to say there could be cold, semi cold, lukewarm, semi hot, hot. Wouldn't this make you to be creating an application of thought to suit your way of thinking. God uses three words to span different degrees of saints. One being on the low end, one being in the middle, and one being on the high end. He is using a church in these scriptures so can't we assume he could be talking to us as well.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by robert

I agree with your opinion that I did think this could be a possibility as to what is meant by these scriptures. Using political terminology as an analogy to cold, hot, and luke warm. You don't agree with my analogy, but do you at least agree with the scriptures. Doesn't God say to be one way or the other and not to be a compromiser.

No it does not say not to be a compromiser. But that is beside the point as we should not compromise the word of God. The PROBLEM is that you probably think anyone that does not believe like you is a compromiser because they are not your brand of conservative....but you might actually be the compromiser and not even realize it. Some of the MOST conservative people in the bible in Jesus's day were the Pharisees....they were Ultra Conservative AND they had compromised the word of God. Amazing eh?

Mar 7:6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
Mar 7:7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mar 7:8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Mar 7:9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.'
Mar 7:11 But you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God)--
Mar 7:12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."

It seems cold could be refering to sinners, lukewarm to hypocrits and hot to those that are trying with all of their ability to please and obey God.

That's pharisees problem though. They thought they could please God with THEIR ability.

God looks for a broken humble heart and faith. In fact a Moderate or a Liberal could just as much as you be trying to please God and obey God even though they don't agree with your view of things. Again....maybe you are the cold or the lukewarm? Think about it. A very conservative person in outward works can be deader than a door nail inwardly

One being on the low end, one being in the middle, and one being on the high end. He is using a church in these scriptures so can't we assume he could be talking to us as well.

The problem is you decided for yourself that he was talking about being liberal, moderate and conservative and that you put yourself in the best catagory.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No it does not say not to be a compromiser. But that is beside the point as we should not compromise the word of God. The PROBLEM is that you probably think anyone that does not believe like you is a compromiser because they are not your brand of conservative....but you might actually be the compromiser and not even realize it. Some of the MOST conservative people in the bible in Jesus's day were the Pharisees....they were Ultra Conservative AND they had compromised the word of God. Amazing eh?

Mar 7:6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
Mar 7:7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mar 7:8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Mar 7:9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.'
Mar 7:11 But you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God)--
Mar 7:12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."


That's pharisees problem though. They thought they could please God with THEIR ability.

God looks for a broken humble heart and faith. In fact a Moderate or a Liberal could just as much as you be trying to please God and obey God even though they don't agree with your view of things. Again....maybe you are the cold or the lukewarm? Think about it. A very conservative person in outward works can be deader than a door nail inwardly


The problem is you decided for yourself that he was talking about being liberal, moderate and conservative and that you put yourself in the best catagory.

Rich in tradition ...

buck naked, pitiable, blind and impoverished in relationship

Just like the Laodiceans

[Praxeas]

Yep. I have seen this all to often too. Traditions are not bad necessarily. They are when they become as important as the word. They are when they unnecessarily control people.They are when they restrict spiritual growth, love and maturity...

[robert]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Rich in tradition ...

buck naked, pitiable, blind and impoverished in relationship

Just like the Laodiceans

Amnazing, I put myself in the category I figured God would want me to be in, You call me a Pharasee, a hypocrite, and think negatively of me and you don't even Know me. You are being my judge and jury. I have not accused you of any thing...I gave an analogy and asked a question. Why these attacks? My desire is not to be holier than you, but to please Jesus my Lord.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No it does not say not to be a compromiser. But that is beside the point as we should not compromise the word of God. The PROBLEM is that you probably think anyone that does not believe like you is a compromiser because they are not your brand of conservative....but you might actually be the compromiser and not even realize it. Some of the MOST conservative people in the bible in Jesus's day were the Pharisees....they were Ultra Conservative AND they had compromised the word of God. Amazing eh?

Mar 7:6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
Mar 7:7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mar 7:8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Mar 7:9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.'
Mar 7:11 But you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God)--
Mar 7:12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."


That's pharisees problem though. They thought they could please God with THEIR ability.

God looks for a broken humble heart and faith. In fact a Moderate or a Liberal could just as much as you be trying to please God and obey God even though they don't agree with your view of things. Again....maybe you are the cold or the lukewarm? Think about it. A very conservative person in outward works can be deader than a door nail inwardly


The problem is you decided for yourself that he was talking about being liberal, moderate and conservative and that you put yourself in the best catagory.

bump for Robert

[robert]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

bump for Robert

I'm 51 years old, I don't know your age but I asume your young. If I'm wrong forgive me. What does bump for Robert mean...is this an insult or a compliment or what? It appears you're insinuating that I'm a pharasee or a hypocrit. Am I correct in this assumption? I'm not sure where your heart is, but you do seem to be disrespectful to people you don't even know.