Understand revelation

[Joelel]

The first resurrection....As I have studied Revelations for years and along the way I have changed my view points on some things. I would like to say to start with , I don't use the word rapture because it is not in the bible. I will use the words first resurrection. In the old testament it teaches us, that if the same vision is given two times ,that vision can't be changed.

The way I see revelations, is that it is in a two part vision. In Rev.001:019 We find John was told to, Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; We find the things that are or was at that time he wrote in Rev.1:20-3:22. Then starting in 004:001 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. ( From Rev.4:2---11:19 is the first part of the two part vision.This is all in order as it will take place.

Please note 8:1-7.The first trumpet sounds in the opening of the 7th. seal. So we find the 7 trumpets start sounding after the 7 seals.)

8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 008:002And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 008:003And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 008:004And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 008:005And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 008:006And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. 008:007The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

In 10/28/03 I believed the church was some place in Rev.6:1--7:17. Rev.006:011 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Them are the ones that were killed in the past and now is the time for us to start to be killed) Rev.007:009 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, ( note ,These are of all nations , are the ones that have been killed and went to heaven and are waiting for the resurrection) stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
007:010 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
007:011 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
007:012 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
007:013 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
007:014 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation,( This is us being killed, coming out of the tribulation) and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
007:015 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
007:016 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
007:017 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.(These are the ones that came out of great tribulation or those of us that are being killed.)

[Sister Alvear]

I wish I was smart enough to figure all these things out...

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I wish I was smart enough to figure all these things out...

Me too,The truth is,I wouldn't understand If the Holy Ghost didn't give me understanding.Thanks be to the Holy Ghost,Jesus

[ApostolicTexas]

How about Revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation was a letter John wrote to seven churches in Asia.He clearly said things which MUST SHORTLY come to pass..This word shortly has the same meaning of the same word found in Acts 25:4

But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

Do you suppose it took Festus 2000 years to get there?..same word same meaning...I believe shortly means shortly..

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

How about Revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation was a letter John wrote to seven churches in Asia.He clearly said things which MUST SHORTLY come to pass..This word shortly has the same meaning of the same word found in Acts 25:4

But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

Do you suppose it took Festus 2000 years to get there?..same word same meaning...I believe shortly means shortly..

A thousand yrs.is as a day.Two thousand yrs. is two days.That is shortly come to pass.Note what all takes place when Jesus returns in the first resurrection.

This no happened yet......2Pet.3
[1] This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[2] That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

[ApostolicTexas]

[QUOTE=Joelel;400070]

A thousand yrs.is as a day.Two thousand yrs. is two days.That is shortly come to pass.Note what all takes place when Jesus returns in the first resurrection.

This is your interpretation Joel..this is not scriptural..

This no happened yet......2Pet.3
[1] This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[2] That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

What you fail to realize Joel that this scripture along with the rest of the NT is audience revelance..there was an original audience to whom this was written to and they looked towards this happening in their day..

[Joelel]

(The tribulation and wrath starts here in Rev.6:17---11:19.)For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
007:001 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 007:002And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 007:003Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, (The wrath of God starts here but they are told to wait) till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

We are here on earth during this time of tribulation and wrath but God will protect us from the wrath as seen in the following scripture.)Rev.009:004 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 012:014 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.16 :001 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
016:002 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 016:015 Behold, I come as a thief. (At this time Jesus has not come yet)Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 018:004 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

(So we see here that we will be here during the tribulation and wrath and God will protect us from wrath but we will be put to death during this time.The following scripture will show us.)012:001 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
012:002 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
012:003 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
012:004 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
012:005 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
012:006 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
012:007 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
012:008 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
012:009 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
012:010 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
012:011 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
013:007 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.(All nations,not just the Jews) 013:015 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 014:013 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. 015:002 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

[Joelel]

(Now we get down to the end of the tribulation and wrath in Rev.11:15 at the sounding of the 7th.trumpet.This 7th.trump is the last trump that Paul talked about .We shall be changed.)1 Cor.015:050 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
015:051 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
015:052 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump7th.Trump) for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Rev,011:015 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
011:016 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
011:017 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
011:018 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
011:019 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
(This is the end of the first part of the two part vision of Rev.)

[Joelel]

(Now we have Rev.12:1-13:18 we see a three and a half year period that takes place the same time as the 6th.trumpet and the 6th.vial.This is a three and one half year period that takes place right before the sounding of the 7th. trumpet and the 7th.vial when the church is resurrected. Let me say at this time,the 7 trumpets and the 7 vials are the same and take place at the same time.Now we have Rev.14:1-20 These again are the ones that are being killed during the time of tribulation and wrath

[Joelel]

Now ,The second part of the two part vision of revelations that starts in Rev.15:1-8. takes place at the same time as the first part These 7 plagues are the same as the seven seals in Rev.6:1--8:1. In Rev.15:7---20:6 we have the 7 vials that are the same as the 7 trumps in Rev.8:1-11:.Please compare the 1st trump with the 1st vial and so on and you will see they are the same.