There is no such thing as Revival

[Apocrypha]

I know this is going to ruin about 10,000 camp sermons, half the audio tapes out there, and most traveling special speakers (evangelists) best sermons.

But one thing keeping our churches small is revivalism. The belief that God will magically send us people if we do "X" (which changes depending on the speaker, speaking engagement, and how catchy the camp sermon title is).

I have spent alot of time around growing churches outside of our ranks, taking their outreach ministers to dinner for years, buying tons of books, and working in several pentecostal churches that have had good (and in two cases explosive) growth.

I would like to make the suggestion that God wants churches to be lovers of the Word. He wants us to win people through our efforts in tandem with the Holy Spirit he has given us. He will indeed open doors but its up to us to take the time and flat out work to bring in the harvest.

I think alot of my fellow pentecostals are lazy navel gazers. They rarely break 100 adult members and few of their pastors are serious soul winners. The home bible study is dying off.. i see it and it saddens me since its the greatest soul winning tool we have ever had. Its not that it doesnt work... it works better than even in a impersonal age... its that we have the mythology of a word that isn't even in the context. If a church is so dead it needs revival... why not bury it and make room for a new church plant?

We need to break free of extra-biblical teachings and look at the book of Acts as our example. Those guys went door to door, they went to Mars Hill to speak to intellectuals, they went to synagogues, and they stood up and wiitnessed.

There are examples like the Ethopian.. and God does open doors... but where is this garbage about a traveling evangelist coming to town and leading 100 folks to salvation in a single day come from? They just don't mystically come in mass because brother "X" is there... I was born and dedicated in this and after 30 years other than "Evangelastic" stories that can't be proven... its just junk and propaganda. Crusades dont work, they have failed in the phillipines, they have failed in the 2nd great awakening under Whitfield, they have failed over and over and over in america.

Its not about revivalism.. its about the local church getting active, doing large volume outreach to get the word out .. and SPENDING MONEY on EVANGELISM and OUTREACH rather than on BUILDINGS and SALARY.

Just my 2 cents... bombs away

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This from the New King James Version

Ezra 9:7-9 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


7 Since the days of our fathers to this day we have been very guilty, and for our iniquities we, our kings, and our priests have been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, to plunder, and to humiliation, as it is this day.

8 And now for a little while grace has been shown from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a peg in His holy place, that our God may enlighten our eyes and give us a measure of revival in our bondage.

9 For we were slaves. Yet our God did not forsake us in our bondage; but He extended mercy to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to revive us, to repair the house of our God, to rebuild its ruins, and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem.

Pretty thin to spend a ton of time talking about a concept that is extra-biblical at best isnt it? We can steal with word "revival" in this translation.. but is that what a honest reading of the text would give us as a New Testament church that teaches like Jesus and his Apostles?

Revival isnt a magic formula... it isnt anything. The kingdom of God grows when we witness and disciple people with the message that they are guilty under Gods laws and God came in the flesh to pay the penalty Himself in our place.

[HeavenlyOne]

Me thinks you don't understand what revival means or is.

Revival isn't for the sinners. It's for the saints. You can't revive something that's not been alive to begin with.

[Apocrypha]

Then why do all the sermons that use the term revival twine it with church growth?

Also where is the new testament context for the idea of "revival"? I am open to scriptural correction.

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

Then why do all the sermons that use the term revival twine it with church growth?

...if the saints get revived, then the church can grow....

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

Then why do all the sermons that use the term revival twine it with church growth?

Also where is the new testament context for the idea of "revival"? I am open to scriptural correction.

It's also puzzled me why ministers will use revival as a term referring to church growth or bringing in new folks. That's not what it's about.

As for a NT context for revival, not sure there is one. Understand that the church was new at that time, so perhaps revival wasn't needed. Or maybe another Bible scholar can help with that. I'd like to know too.

[Rico]

Door to door anything is dead in this country. People have moved on to other forms of communication and spreading the message, regardless of what that message may be. Word of mouth advertising is all they had when the Bible was being written. I would love to see what someone like Paul would do with radio, tv, and internet.

[KarenJo]

I heard a good message recently and the minister spoke about Revival being for the "Church Body" who is already saved and Evangelism is for the lost. If we would have Revival in the Body then the extension of that will be evangelism.

In these days, the door to door thing is not very safe but with good advertising and word of mouth, then people will hear about the things that God is doing.

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by KarenJo

In these days, the door to door thing is not very safe but with good advertising and word of mouth, then people will hear about the things that God is doing.

Is not being safe a good enough excuse not to do it? Lion's dens...firey furnaces....beating, stonings, imprisonment....none of those were safe either, but the people of God faced them....





I think door-to-door in large part has a bad stigma attached to it in the eyes of the majority these days. It's synonomous with Jehovah's Witnesses or perhaps Mormons and many people are on the defensive against that. And if they're not on the defensive because of that stigma, then many people just aren't hospitable to receiving a stranger at their door period.

(but there again....that doesn't necessarily mean that's an excuse not to do it)

[IAintMovin]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

Then why do all the sermons that use the term revival twine it with church growth?

Also where is the new testament context for the idea of "revival"? I am open to scriptural correction.

I will probably not take the time to read this thread....didnt take time to read the long opening post (or at least not all of it)....but this one is so easy to answer it is crazy.....when revival comes (the church coming alive again).......the power is evident......sinners will find what they are looking for.....revival does bring in the sinner.....it is just not the sinner coming in.....

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

I will probably not take the time to read this thread....didnt take time to read the long opening post (or at least not all of it)....but this one is so easy to answer it is crazy.....when revival comes (the church coming alive again).......the power is evident......sinners will find what they are looking for.....revival does bring in the sinner.....it is just not the sinner coming in.....

I can say it even more abbreviated than you: Revival sparks Evangelism. There...