In a couple of threads, I pointed out something that struck me as odd: that the $60/month dues for WWPF membership can come out of a member's personal tithe.
Quote:
I will support the World Pentecostal Fellowship with my monthly dues contributed on a quarterly basis. This amount may come from my personal tithe, the remainder of which may also go to WPF or elsewhere in the work of God.
So, the member has no out-of-pocket expense -- the member's church (or whatever he pays tithes to) foots the bill. Does this raise any flags, with you guys? Is it normal and acceptable for clubs like this to give their members permission to divert part of their tithes to the club?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Just think of how many little old ladies SS checks helped sponsor attendance at this thing. I am sure most of the churches footed the bill for their ministers to attend. I wonder how that would go over in some of the churches that were represented there.
Just think of how many little old ladies SS checks helped sponsor attendance at this thing. I am sure most of the churches footed the bill for their ministers to attend. I wonder how that would go over in some of the churches that were represented there.
Some pastors went and their churches are clueless......
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
In a couple of threads, I pointed out something that struck me as odd: that the $60/month dues for WWPF membership can come out of a member's personal tithe.
So, the member has no out-of-pocket expense -- the member's church (or whatever he pays tithes to) foots the bill. Does this raise any flags, with you guys? Is it normal and acceptable for clubs like this to give their members permission to divert part of their tithes to the club?
Timmy, many men use Personal Tithe (a tithe on their ministry income) to pay dues. Not all tithe to the District but use that fund for "ministry". Many men have to pay more into a church than they get out. Home Missionaries with $10 offerings and $600 a month power bills certainly cannot afford some luxuries.
What pray tell, are you suggesting here?
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I am not a member here -Do not PM me please?
1. Just wondering if this arrangement is unusual, for an Apostolic fellowship type of thing. Does the UPCI itself, e.g., allow members to allocate part of their tithes for UPCI dues?
To me, it seems a bit presumptuous to start up some association/fellowship/club, and give its members permission to reroute some of the money they would normally give to, say, a local church. If that's considered normal for these kinds of thing, fine.
(Hmm. Maybe I should start a club! )
2. People have kinda griped about the dues, and suggested that it would prevent some from joining, for economic reasons. But if it's a net zero out-of-pocket expense, that doesn't make sense. Of course, maybe some folks would not feel right about deducting the dues from their tithe, so it would be an additional expense.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Once a pastor is paid a salary, that money is his to support his family and do with as he sees fit, just as your paycheck is yours once it is in your hands. If he wants to use part of his salary to join an organization or club that is his business, and there is nothing unethical about it. At least, not in reference to what money he is using to join. Now, if he takes money out of the church general fund, then it would be somewhat the business of the entire congregation. And of course, the church may have an interest in what organizations he belongs to. But it shouldn't have anything to do with paying dues out of HIS own pocket.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Once a pastor is paid a salary, that money is his to support his family and do with as he sees fit, just as your paycheck is yours once it is in your hands. If he wants to use part of his salary to join an organization or club that is his business, and there is nothing unethical about it. At least, not in reference to what money he is using to join. Now, if he takes money out of the church general fund, then it would be somewhat the business of the entire congregation. And of course, the church may have an interest in what organizations he belongs to. But it shouldn't have anything to do with paying dues out of HIS own pocket.
I thought pastors generally pay tithes on their salaries, either back into the church or to the district, or whatever. Is that not the case in OP circles? I think most AG pastors do that. Dunno for sure.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I thought pastors generally pay tithes on their salaries, either back into the church or to the district, or whatever. Is that not the case in OP circles? I think most AG pastors do that. Dunno for sure.
Hopefully all pastors pay tithes.
My point was, you made it seem unethical that a pastor would use money that he gets from the church (e.g., his salary/tithes) to pay for a membership in the WPF. If that was your point, then I disagree with it.
Are you saying it is unethical if he uses tithes to support the WPF instead of the UPCI? (Actually, that would be "in addition to") OR, are you suggesting that it would only be wrong for him to use the tithes he would normally pay into the church or district for that purpose?
My Dad paid his tithes into a separate church fund and used it to pay evangelists, give missionaries a little extra, etc. He never paid it to the district, because he didn't trust them to put it to good use.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
My point was, you made it seem unethical that a pastor would use money that he gets from the church (e.g., his salary/tithes) to pay for a membership in the WPF. If that was your point, then I disagree with it.
Are you saying it is unethical if he uses tithes to support the WPF instead of the UPCI? (Actually, that would be "in addition to") OR, are you suggesting that it would only be wrong for him to use the tithes he would normally pay into the church or district for that purpose?
My Dad paid his tithes into a separate church fund and used it to pay evangelists, give missionaries a little extra, etc. He never paid it to the district, because he didn't trust them to put it to good use.
I was asking about the WPF itself. Is it acceptable or common for an organization to tell its members that it's OK to divert some of their tithes to itself? You're right about the members themselves, of course. They can allocate their tithes however they see fit, and if they consider the WWPF to be part of the Lord's work, then fine. But the organization itself bringing up the idea just seems a bit self-serving.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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