Drawing Lines: Where Do Yours Begin?

Well, folks, let's be honest here.

Everyone worth their salt should have convictions.

Gut convictions.
Deep rooted, heartfelt convictions.
Never fading, soul captivating convictions.

I don't mind telling you that, in my opinion, if you don't have some real convictions you probably don't have a real relationship with God. The difference in most of us is where we draw the line when it comes to fellowshipping around our convictions.

For instance, your convictions may be much more 'relaxed' than mine. Obviously, some of my convictions surely pertain to modesty of dress while other's don't put so much emphasis on spiritual disciplines pertaining to clothing.

If you are right with God you have, somewhere in your world, some serious beliefs upon which you build your spiritual disciplines. Again, the question is where do you draw the line and say, "I like you but that's a bit much for my spiritual comfort."

Among the spiritual disciplines in my life are things that would be insignificant to most but others would be critical to most as well:
EXAMPLE... I simply cannot bring myself to put anything on top of my Bible. It bothers me. It haunts me to think that I would disrespect the Word of God by chucking it into the back seat of my car and piling groceries on it! Hey, I won't even put a piece of paper on my Bible... strange to you? A conviction to me.

I wouldn't disfellowship anybody over it. I strongly teach my young ministers to respect it to the point that if I see something on their Bible they 'know' my displeasure.

HOWEVER... I simply could not, for any reason, put false doctrine in my pulpit to preach and don't think I could have any real fellowship with an Apostolic Church that thought the New Birth Doctrine so insignificant that putting a damnable doctrine in their pulpit was okay.

GET MY POINT?
Both of them are convictions to me;
Lines of fellowship, however, are drawn differently by various people.

Let's do something 'different' on AFF for a little while. Let's talk 'convictions' and where YOU draw the line of 'fellowship'. I'm NOT talking about 'hating' your brother or 'resenting' another Church or belief. I'm talking about a "I love you, Brother, but that is a very important issue to me that I can't 'overlook' in my pursuit of fellowship."

What conviction do you have that would be hard for you to fellowship 'around'? Where do you draw your lines.

Not looking for a 'standards' thread here... looking for a 'I'm close enough to God that my personal convictions can't be ignored on this issue.

Who is brave enough to admit to a conviction that strong?

[OP_Carl]

People who remain or become involved in multi-level marketing business schemes when Holy-Ghost-filled demonstrate to me insufficient discernment for me to fellowship with them on anything more than a casual greeting basis.

I have a hard time remaining friends with men who publicly degrade their wives. They're unwittingly taking a cheesegrater to their own flesh, they're sending a signal to their wife that they have buyer's remorse, and they're informing their audience that they lack the ability to make good choices and/or decisions. I cut a little slack for the guys who married their live-in girlfriend or the mother of their child after they got in church.

I won't fellowship people, of whom there are many in my own church who have broadcast television in their homes. This I do mainly for my children.

I won't fellowship gossipmongers. My wife ends up trapped in the nursery sometimes, and the things she tells me afterwards will stand your hair on end! I don't believe in spreading gossip, and so the corrollary must be that I refuse to listen to it as well. I rebuke those that try it with me.

I avoid the company of men who create nicknames for other men, or call everyone 'Buddy.'

[Sherri]

I have a real problem fellowshipping with anyone who lacks basic integrity, and there are several in ministry. Lying, inconsistency, lack of financial integrity, and any such thing just drives me nuts!

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

People who remain or become involved in multi-level marketing business schemes when Holy-Ghost-filled demonstrate to me insufficient discernment for me to fellowship with them on anything more than a casual greeting basis.

I have a hard time remaining friends with men who publicly degrade their wives. They're unwittingly taking a cheesegrater to their own flesh, they're sending a signal to their wife that they have buyer's remorse, and they're informing their audience that they lack the ability to make good choices and/or decisions. I cut a little slack for the guys who married their live-in girlfriend or the mother of their child after they got in church.

I won't fellowship people, of whom there are many in my own church who have broadcast television in their homes. This I do mainly for my children.

I won't fellowship gossipmongers. My wife ends up trapped in the nursery sometimes, and the things she tells me afterwards will stand your hair on end! I don't believe in spreading gossip, and so the corrollary must be that I refuse to listen to it as well. I rebuke those that try it with me.

I avoid the company of men who create nicknames for other men, or call everyone 'Buddy.'

In almost 20 years of Pastoring I've only had one Evangelist who did this openly behind the pulpit. I was mad as a big dog but held my peace. He was young, cocky and thought he had 'arrived' because he was preaching a revival at my Church. He carried this 'demeaning' attitude towards his wife back into the table that night during some after Church fellowship... I looked at him strangely and then focused everything I had on having a conversation with his wife.

If he interrupted, I just kept listening to her.

If he had an idea, I just kept asking her what shethought about whatever we were talking about.

When he had a funny remark... no smiles, no real acknowledgment, but kept focused intently on dialoguing with her.

Eventually I spoke in kind response to him before he left. The next night we closed out revival and before he left I told him why we didn't go on (he was, in fact, a good preacher); ANYBODY that will treat his literal wife with such disregard and disrespect will eventually try to treat the Bride of Christ with the same arrogant attitude. I told him that I focused on his wife and her heartbeat more than him the night before because, to be quite frank, I think God focuses on His Bride a lot more than He does any single Preacher. "You're only necessary because of His love for the Bride."

No thanks. Don't need that in my Church. They are too important to God... and me.

We closed and he never came back.

[LadyChocolate]

I cannot stand to hear women run down their husbands. I will not listen to remarks that degrade men. I become sensitive to this because it just shows a true lack of respect. My husband treats me with respect and works hard for us. I remember being newly married and being in a new church and I was in the nursery with a bunch of women. At first I thought I it was a joke the way they were running down their husbands. But I realized it wasn't. I made up my mind that I would not be close friends with them because I was not going to pick up that spirit. I also hate the way society has belittled men. I am grateful the men in my life (my husband and father) They are great!

[1992]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

ANYBODY that will treat his literal wife with such disregard and disrespect will eventually try to treat the Bride of Christ with the same arrogant attitude. I told him that I focused on his wife and her heartbeat more than him the night before because, to be quite frank, I think God focuses on His Bride a lot more than He does any single Preacher. "You're only necessary because of His love for the Bride."

No thanks. Don't need that in my Church. They are too important to God... and me.

We closed and he never came back.

Bro. Steadfast,

That was an excellent post. I have heard many ministers joke at their wives' expense from the pulpit. The congregation chuckles and I cringe in my seat, feeling her pain. It's too bad there aren't more men like you willing to stand up and call them on it. Thank you.

[1992]

Besides being careful about how my Bible is placed, and capitalizing all pronouns in relation to God, I also refuse to let my children use slang. Nothing turns me off more than hearing OM___ or OM (substitute word here) come out of a pentecostal mouth.

I tend to stay away from people who do nothing but talk bad about other people. Can't count the number of times someone's said "pray for so and so, they ____". (It especially bothers me when pastors do this from the pulpit, but that's a whole other subject.)

I don't associate closely with people who are deceptive and liers.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... one Evangelist who did this openly behind the pulpit.

A comment or two meant as jokes from behind the pulpit don't bother me. I wasn't specifically referring to public speaking when I said "publicly degrades." I won't tolerate a man who degrades his wife to any third party in any setting.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... He carried this 'demeaning' attitude towards his wife back into the table that night during some after Church fellowship... I looked at him strangely and then focused everything I had on having a conversation with his wife.

If he interrupted, I just kept listening to her.

It really gets under your skin, doesn't it, brother, to hear this kind of garbage when you're the type of guy who appreciates and respects his wife? I'm glad somebody can relate. What a guy like this really needs is to learn: a) to recognize his own faults, and b) to look past the faults of others with Jesus as his example.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... Eventually I spoke in kind response to him before he left. The next night we closed out revival and before he left I told him why we didn't go on (he was, in fact, a good preacher); ANYBODY that will treat his literal wife with such disregard and disrespect will eventually try to treat the Bride of Christ with the same arrogant attitude. I told him that I focused on his wife and her heartbeat more than him the night before because, to be quite frank, I think God focuses on His Bride a lot more than He does any single Preacher. "You're only necessary because of His love for the Bride."

That is some good stuff! This type of insight is the reason you are a successful and sought-after spiritual leader.

My attempts to "help" men with this problem have never worked, but I've never been as direct. I suspect that such men view their peers that don't approach their wives with hob-nailed boots as weak. At least you were able to get this guy's attention by interrupting his schedule and cash flow. And I agree it would be an unfortunate trait in a leader or role model.

[Twisp]

I have the "no putting anything on the Bible" hangup also. I am not sure if it is a conviction or just habit from what my Dad taught me. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I guess it is just hardwired into me at this point.

As far as my own convictions, lying is where I draw the line. If someone lies to me, they lose all credibility and respect from me. I have no business dealing with anyone that I cannot trust beyond casual acknowledgments. It changes the whole dynamic of the relationship for me. I know all sin is the same, that is just the one thing that gets me riled up more than anything else. I also tend to react stronger to religious people lying than others. I guess I feel they should know a little better.

[Raven]

Steadfast

Good subject matter to discuss. I was intrigued by your example of putting anything on your Bible. Not strange at all, for I have the very same "conviction"and anyone around our home will tell you that putting anything on top of the Bible is a No, No. [I'm even a little particular about which version of the Bible gets stacked on top! LOL ]
Bottom line for me is: Someone may have convictions different than I do but just be honest and genuine with them. That's something I can respect.
Raven