a honest question

[The Closer]

i just got through looking at the larry booker thread and reading a little in it

we all know that no matter what the vote was in tampa this last year in the upc the organization was going to lose good men

with the vote being as it was the more conserative side was the one which has men leave

some of them have been accused of dividing the organization and so forth and such

you have been reading it so no need for me to go over it all again

but my question is what if the vote had been different and men from the more liberal side were choosing to leave would those men also be dividing the organization or would they be men of vision and desire to move the upc down the road

as i see it we cannot have it both ways

[Ferd]

In a vaccume, your question is a good one.

however, in context, the question isnt so simple. The fact is, in 1992, a large number of those "liberal" pastors did leave. many of the ones leaving now, were happy to see them go.

LY was judged pretty harshly for a sermon he preached on the subject just before he left.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ferd

In a vaccume, your question is a good one.

however, in context, the question isnt so simple. The fact is, in 1992, a large number of those "liberal" pastors did leave. many of the ones leaving now, were happy to see them go.

LY was judged pretty harshly for a sermon he preached on the subject just before he left.

That's what I was thinking.

I don't believe at that time, the ones that left were saying that UPC would self-destruct either.

Of course, the issue is the more conservative are so passionate about their convictions and beliefs that they can only see things through their eyes and no one can fault them for that. However, I think sometimes they paint themselves into a corner.

[The Closer]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

That's what I was thinking.

I don't believe at that time, the ones that left were saying that UPC would self-destruct either.

Of course, the issue is the more conservative are so passionate about their convictions and beliefs that they can only see things through their eyes and no one can fault them for that. However, I think sometimes they paint themselves into a corner.

is this the words of just a few or many

from what i have been able to gather it is not the words of the many but a few that may even wish that would happen which if that is the case i think it is sad

some would say i am a liberal others would say i am a con but i can say that i wish no destruction for those who leave on either side of the issue

i do not believe however that God would bless anyone who strays from the doctrines taught in the Word of God such as repentance, baptism in Jesus Name or the Holy Ghost

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by The Closer

is this the words of just a few or many

from what i have been able to gather it is not the words of the many but a few that may even wish that would happen which if that is the case i think it is sad

some would say i am a liberal others would say i am a con but i can say that i wish no destruction for those who leave on either side of the issue

i do not believe however that God would bless anyone who strays from the doctrines taught in the Word of God such as repentance, baptism in Jesus Name or the Holy Ghost

I would think it's a few, but to keep hearing over and over that it's not out there is just wrong. It's out there - can't deny that some and I say again some feel this way.

[Ferd]

I also believe this idea of the Cons being devisive stems from 1992. Many in the organization blame the Cons for that exodus and believe the Cons have been devisive since then.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I also believe this idea of the Cons being devisive stems from 1992. Many in the organization blame the Cons for that exodus and believe the Cons have been devisive since then.

Well, with this attitude - it's no wonder.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=146

[The Closer]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Well, with this attitude - it's no wonder.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=146

personally i do not believe that this kind of attitude shown in the linked post above pleases God

not at all

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by The Closer

personally i do not believe that this kind of attitude shown in the linked post above pleases God

not at all

Yes, Cara it is just wrong and cannot please God.

[Felicity]

I must speak for I cannot be silent. Well, I could of course but feel so strongly about this whole thing that I won't. So there. I just feel once again to express how strongly I feel about this whole "division" thing and how egregious and injurious it will be to the Oneness Apostolic movement overall.

I wish people could look past their noses long enough and the current "issue" and policitical maneuvering going on - because no doubt there's some of that in the mix too - to see how this is going to affect the "ONENESS" ('scuse the pun but well .... so much for that as far as unity and togetherness goes) apostolic movement overall.

I've heard some state that there will still be fellowship between the UPCI and whatever the name of the new division takes place will be called and there may be on the part of some individuals. But there is NO doubt whatsoever that a split away from UPC will result in bad feelings, distance, and a break in fellowship. No doubt about it because strong feelings are already developing and will continue to develop as this thing hastens to its climax.

What a shame in my opinion!

Take a look at the bigger picture and see where things are and how they will be decades down the road should the Lord tarry.

Think about how families, churches, districts, missionaries and the greatest organization going as far as the OP movement goes will be affected.

Young men who have had mentors, shepherds, leaders, teachers and those who they've respected so highly over the years are hearing all this negative "Tulsa split" talk and they are going to be affected as well. They have a heritage and history that's going to be wrenched and torpedoed as a result of what is being planned in regarding to a 'new' group forming.

Think about the division that will take place in families, churches, etc. and how that's going to affect things overall.

I'm just writing quickly here and probably not doing justice to any kind of plea or argument I could make for people to please make sure that they aren't just caught up in a carnal "issue" thing that's not going to matter a hill of beans a few years down the road.

I just feel so about all of this.