A Godhead Question

Truly Blessed · #1 07-14-2007, 06:50 PM

In Oneness circles we teach that Jesus Christ pre-existed as the Word and then became flesh and dwelt among us. I’m interested in how you explain Philippians 2:6-11.

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Verse 6 refers to “who”. Verse 7 uses the word “himself” and “him”.Verse 8 says “he” humbled “himself”. Verse 9 refers to “him”.

It seems that Paul is referring to Jesus Christ in the pre-existent state using the same pronouns as the person of Jesus in the flesh on earth, rather than as an “it” which would seem more appropriate if one was referring to the “word”.

Why does it say, “…made himself of no reputation”?

Praxeas · #2 07-14-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

In Oneness circles we teach that Jesus Christ pre-existed as the Word and then became flesh and dwelt among us. I’m interested in how you explain Philippians 2:6-11.

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Verse 6 refers to “who”. Verse 7 uses the word “himself” and “him”.Verse 8 says “he” humbled “himself”. Verse 9 refers to “him”.

It seems that Paul is referring to Jesus Christ in the pre-existent state using the same pronouns as the person of Jesus in the flesh on earth, rather than as an “it” which would seem more appropriate if one was referring to the “word”.

Why does it say, “…made himself of no reputation”?

Jesus is God. Jesus was God before He was incarnate as flesh. He was not an it. OPs don't teach Jesus was a it before the incarnation

Truly Blessed · #3 07-14-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus is God. Jesus was God before He was incarnate as flesh. He was not an it. OPs don't teach Jesus was a it before the incarnation

I hear many OPs speak of the Spirit as "it".

Barb · #4 07-14-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I hear many OPs speak of the Spirit as "it".

I know..."they just received 'it'!!"

Praxeas · #5 07-14-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I hear many OPs speak of the Spirit as "it".

You were referring to Jesus, but then again even the bible calls Spirit "it"...why? Because Spirit is neuter gender. The greek word is Neuter gender and so it takes a neuter gender pronoun. That does not make Spirit a non-living thing. Jesus, before the incarnation is not merely an "it" (the plan or logos of God) but is God Himself.

rgcraig · #6 07-15-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You were referring to Jesus, but then again even the bible calls Spirit "it"...why? Because Spirit is neuter gender. The greek word is Neuter gender and so it takes a neuter gender pronoun. That does not make Spirit a non-living thing. Jesus, before the incarnation is not merely an "it" (the plan or logos of God) but is God Himself.

I was with you on the spirit being neuter gender, therefore being called "it" however, God is a spirit and he's always referred to as "he".

Barb · #7 07-15-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I was with you on the spirit being neuter gender, therefore being called "it" however, God is a spirit and he's always referred to as "he".

Absolutely, Renda...

Truly Blessed · #8 07-15-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I was with you on the spirit being neuter gender, therefore being called "it" however, God is a spirit and he's always referred to as "he".

Jesus Himself did not refer to the Spirit as being neuter gender. He referred to the Spirit as HE. John 14:26 is a good example of this where Jesus said "But the Holy Spirit, WHOM the Father will send in my name, HE will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

How can one believe that the Holy Spirit is God and yet believe He is an it? Especially in light of the words of Jesus Himself who clearly declared in John 14:20 regarding the Holy Spirit indwelling us, "In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."

I'm sorry, but I cannot bring myself to refer to the Holy Spirit, [who is Christ in me] as an IT.

Praxeas · #9 07-15-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I was with you on the spirit being neuter gender, therefore being called "it" however, God is a spirit and he's always referred to as "he".

You are spirit too, right? But is your spirit a she? Jesus is flesh. When we say HE are we talking about his body, his spirit or his soul?

Once again, in greek masculine nouns MUST take masculine pronouns. Neuter nouns MUST take neuter pronouns and on and on and on. That's how languages work.

This all leads towards a dangerous cultic idea where people believe God is a family and Father is the father, Son is the male offspring and Spirit is the feminine..that God HAS to have gender. Probably one reason for calling God a HE is that HE made man first and man is the head. It makes sense.

mizpeh · #10 07-14-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

In Oneness circles we teach that Jesus Christ pre-existed as the Word and then became flesh and dwelt among us. I’m interested in how you explain Philippians 2:6-11.

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Verse 6 refers to “who”. Verse 7 uses the word “himself” and “him”.Verse 8 says “he” humbled “himself”. Verse 9 refers to “him”.

It seems that Paul is referring to Jesus Christ in the pre-existent state using the same pronouns as the person of Jesus in the flesh on earth, rather than as an “it” which would seem more appropriate if one was referring to the “word”.

Why does it say, “…made himself of no reputation”?

I believe this whole passage speaks of the man, Jesus Christ, and doesn't refer to his preexistence as God. (The Word was God) Jesus, as a man, knowing he was YHWH in the flesh humbled himself, made himself of no reputation, like a slave he came to serve and die. Jesus didn't exalt himself as a king even though he was and is the King of Kings, the Lord of glory, the creator of heaven and earth.