I attended a child's funeral, once. Good Christian family. Pentecostals. Believers in miracles. I think the boy was about 10 years old. Lukemia.
I didn't pry into the affairs of this family and have no desire to. They've been through hell. But I can't help wondering what they might think is the reason their son is now "in heaven" (as they would say). Well, the Bible offers some "help" in understanding it.
"You have not because you ask not."
Well, I can't believe that was it. I had already stopped attending that church when the child was diagnosed, so I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine that nobody asked God to heal him. So let's try again.
"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."
Uh. Hmm. Nah. Don't think so.
"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
Ah. Now there's a possibility. The prayer needs to be fervent. Maybe they didn't wail loudly enough, or pull enough all-nighters, or something. And then there's that "righteous man" thing. And after all, "There is none righteous, no, not one." (Goes without saying that their prayers were not "effectual".)
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us."
Aha! God will do whatever you ask that is according to his will! Bingo! They asked for something that God didn't want to do!
I can only hope they have done this same study and found the answer. If they have, I'm sure it is a great comfort.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
By the way, they were (and are, far as I know) Assembly of God, which teaches that healing is the "privilege of all believers", "provided for in the Atonement". (They also "do not understand fully why some are healed and others are not". Maybe they haven't seen those scriptures I posted. )
You guys (some of you) might offer another reason: they were believers. Not real believers.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy, we just buried my 58 year old lifetime pentecostal sister in law 2 weeks ago...my wife last fall was in a Target store and a random stranger walked up and prophecied to her that this and another event would begin immediately begin to occur(AG-ish kinda guy)...she was in remission at the time and immediately fell sick again contrary to the church of 2000s prayers she attended. She was taken in death as suggested by the prophet and an immediate 2nd "family" miracle that I thought could never be mended happened(even last night at my house), just like the prophet said!
Death is just as much as the will of God as birth is. It is the "glory" of the church. I completely get it. I am not "opposed" to it at all and I believe Jesus uses it to HEAL and PURIFY others...if we will allow it to...
well put! if i had to venture a guess for Timmy, i would say that leukemia is not normal or natural, but has causes that may have been ignored; which is often the case, especially if the parents sought western medicine for relief, which is famous for treating symptoms while ignoring causes. but i like your answer better.
well put! if i had to venture a guess for Timmy, i would say that leukemia is not normal or natural, but has causes that may have been ignored; which is often the case, especially if the parents sought western medicine for relief, which is famous for treating symptoms while ignoring causes. but i like your answer better.
the American lifestyle; of which many Pentecostals engage, unawares. Eating out of the center aisles of a grocery store. Understand that every person is different in their tolerances for...everything. When you grasp that even your food supply has been commandeered, and adulterated--and that sick people make better consumers--and seek "natural leukemia cures" on Google (many, many people have remediated leukemia this way), this pov, which surely sounds weird at first (stems from seeing that satan runs the world, ergo if one is 'in the world' in any fashion, the consequences will be __________; in this case, "leukemia") becomes a bit clearer.
Are you aware that Monsanto almost completely controls your food supply now, Dordt--from seed to table--and yet they do not serve their own food in their own cafeterias? And that their food is not allowed in any government cafeterias either? think about that.
There are some situations there are no good answers for here on earth. We do not understand the mind of God.
If God healed every time someone was ill and prayed for with faith Christians would pretty much live forever and no one would be living by faith, but by signs.
I view healing as a Godly intervention that sometimes happens and sometimes does not depending on God's will and that will is something we many times don't understand.
We have a family in our church that has been through hell this year. Here is it in a nutshell;
-Wife had autistic 11 year old son from first marriage. Great kid with constant smile on his face.
-God blessed wife with great second husband who loved autistic boy as his own
-Second husband and wife tried multiple times to conceive their own child and each time had a miscarriage. Once time carried to almost full term and baby died.
-Past year wife gets pregnant again and this time appears to be carrying baby to term. While pregnant 11 year old son is diagnosed with Leukemia and body rejects chemo treatment. When 8 months pregnant with baby uterous bursts and mother is in one ICU, baby is in another hospital ICU, and 11 year old son with Leukemia is in a third hospital's ICU.
-Mother and baby recover but 11 year old dies of Leukemia a few weeks or months later.
This family has earned the right to legally change their name to Job. I have absolutely no idea why they have had to endure this nightmare but I do know that God is able to bring them through it and help them.
Sometimes preachers and saints need to just say that we don't have all the answers and can't give a reason why some things happen. What we do know though is that God is able to keep us through bad times.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
I attended a child's funeral, once. Good Christian family. Pentecostals. Believers in miracles. I think the boy was about 10 years old. Lukemia.
I didn't pry into the affairs of this family and have no desire to. They've been through hell. But I can't help wondering what they might think is the reason their son is now "in heaven" (as they would say). Well, the Bible offers some "help" in understanding it.
"You have not because you ask not."
Well, I can't believe that was it. I had already stopped attending that church when the child was diagnosed, so I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine that nobody asked God to heal him. So let's try again.
"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."
Uh. Hmm. Nah. Don't think so.
"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
Ah. Now there's a possibility. The prayer needs to be fervent. Maybe they didn't wail loudly enough, or pull enough all-nighters, or something. And then there's that "righteous man" thing. And after all, "There is none righteous, no, not one." (Goes without saying that their prayers were not "effectual".)
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us."
Aha! God will do whatever you ask that is according to his will! Bingo! They asked for something that God didn't want to do!
I can only hope they have done this same study and found the answer. If they have, I'm sure it is a great comfort.
Reasons for someone not being healed include
Lack of faith, not necessarily on the part of the person needing healing either
It wasn't God's will
The Church isn't ready
The bible makes it clear Timmy that miracles don't always happen upon one simple prayer
Jesus spent 40 days praying and fasting before beginning His ministry and then afterwards continued to regularly pray probably three times a day
HOUR(S) OF PRAYER[Gk hṓra tḗs proseuchḗs]. The phrase “hour of prayer” occurs only in Acts 3:1: Peter and John went up to the temple “at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour” (but see also Lk. 1:10; Acts 10:3, 9[?], 30). This narrative reflects the Jewish custom in NT times of regular hours of prayer three times a day.
The Jewish tradition of thrice-daily hours of prayer is already expressed in the OT (cf. Ps. 55:17 [MT 18]; Dnl. 6:10 [MT 11]; though 1 Ch. 23:30 reflects a twice-daily pattern). The exact times of the three hours, however, and the religious or cultic reasons for them are not easy to determine. The reference to morning, noon, and evening in Ps. 55:17 led some to regard the 3rd, 6th, and 9th hours of the day as the hours of prayer. But the more common and perhaps more important Jewish tradition was to regard the three hours of prayer as morning (3rd hour), afternoon (9th hour), and evening (12th hour). The morning and afternoon (sometimes translated “evening”) sacrifices (Ex. 29:38–42; 2 K. 16:15) became the occasions for the morning (Ps. 5:3 [MT 4]) and afternoon (Ps. 141:2; Ezr. 9:5) hours of prayer. Another hour of prayer at sunset was then added.
Although the NT does not directly advocate regular hours of prayer (whether twice or thrice daily), the post-apostolic Church soon came to call the 3rd, 6th, and 9th hours of the day the “apostolic hours” of prayer (based on the apostolic precedents in Acts 3:1; 10:3, 9, 30)
Bandstra, A. J. (1979–1988). Hour(s) of Prayer. In G. W. Bromiley (Ed.), . Vol. 2: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (769). Wm. B. Eerdmans.
Most of the church does not follow His example. We are far too distracted
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
We humans. even saints, do not look at death the way God does. To us, death is a "leap in the dark" and the unknown can be a horrible frightening experience, again even to saints. But with God, death is a totally different experience. No horror, no fear, but something that heaven views as PRECIOUS. Sis. Mergruder's song Heaven's Point of View" says it right.
Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADY2XvJz6AE
__________________
.
Do Not Argue With Idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
.
We humans. even saints, do not look at death the way God does. To us, death is a "leap in the dark" and the unknown can be a horrible frightening experience, again even to saints. But with God, death is a totally different experience. No horror, no fear, but something that heaven views as PRECIOUS. Sis. Mergruder's song Heaven's Point of View" says it right.
Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
)
Hybrid Mode
