First, I want to state that many of the Christians I know are wonderful people. They are kind, generous, honest (mostly ), reliable, etc. Some aren't so wonderful. I can say the same for my unbelieving acquaintances. So now, I'm wondering: are Christians in general better than non-Christians? Is a random person on the street more likely to be "good" if you discover that he or she is a believer?
There is some flexibility in the question, of course. We should define "better" and "good" and "Christian", first of all. Well, how about if I leave that up to you, the participants in the discussion?
So, what say you?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I say that a huge part of the problem is defining Christian. I have known people who use the term to promote businesses... Some less than honest businesses... It seems that the term encourages people to relax and makes it easier to stick it to 'em. Think 'Christian Yellow Pages' and that big fish on a plumber or AC repairman's trucks.
However if a person is truly indwelt by the spirit of God and is being changed to His likeness... things should be better depending on where they are in the process.
Still over all if the question is about moral character and...
If the choices are:
1. Better
2. Worse
3. No difference
Sadly, my choice is 3.
Last edited by Titus2woman; 10-10-2012 at 12:01 PM.
Timmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy. If you would listen to Ravi Zacharias' christian apologetics (free podcasts available on itunes, along with podcasts by william lane craig) you would know that while atheists, agnostics and nonbelievers may be ethical and good people, there is no rationale for their good behavior because evil actions of murder and hatred are equally valid in that worldview. why should an atheist be ethical, there is no reasonable impulse as to why he can't be evil. Only a theistic worldview gives you reasons to be ethical, because there is a moral law giver who will judge.
Timmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy. If you would listen to Ravi Zacharias' christian apologetics (free podcasts available on itunes, along with podcasts by william lane craig) you would know that while atheists, agnostics and nonbelievers may be ethical and good people, there is no rationale for their good behavior because evil actions of murder and hatred are equally valid in that worldview. why should an atheist be ethical, there is no reasonable impulse as to why he can't be evil. Only a theistic worldview gives you reasons to be ethical, because there is a moral law giver who will judge.
As I am married to an Atheist, this caught my attention. And I really don't think you can lump all people of a group together as people tend to be highly individual. But based on conversations that we've had, I don't think that my husband would agree that there is no rationale for his behavior. I might not agree with his rationale (in fact I tend to find it kind of depressing) but he definitely has one.
To the best of my understanding he would say that mores, laws and what we'll call "right action" are necessary to have a well functioning society. Without them we would have anarchy and chaos and would be able to accomplish nothing.
If you believe that all we have is our fellow man (that's the part I find depressing, but then I am extremely cynical) then it is important to work together, and help each other in order to help make our world a better place.
To be honest, he has often put me to shame in this area.
Everything has to do with culture, if you all were born in India you would act like Hindus, with eastern ethics, If you were born in Tibet, odds would be very good that you all would be shamanistic, or Buddhist, but even if you didn't believe in any of those religions you would hold to those ethics.
I was raised by an atheist, and he loved his children, hard worker, fought in World War II, and he was an Sicilian American, with Italian American ethics.
If we all were born in Saudi Arabia this would be the Islamic Friends Forum.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Everything has to do with culture, if you all were born in India you would act like Hindus, with eastern ethics, If you were born in Tibet, odds would be very good that you all would be shamanistic, or Buddhist, but even if you didn't believe in any of those religions you would hold to those ethics.
I was raised by an atheist, and he loved his children, hard worker, fought in World War II, and he was an Sicilian American, with Italian American ethics.
If we all were born in Saudi Arabia this would be the Islamic Friends Forum.
Yep.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
As I am married to an Atheist, this caught my attention. And I really don't think you can lump all people of a group together as people tend to be highly individual. But based on conversations that we've had, I don't think that my husband would agree that there is no rationale for his behavior. I might not agree with his rationale (in fact I tend to find it kind of depressing) but he definitely has one.
To the best of my understanding he would say that mores, laws and what we'll call "right action" are necessary to have a well functioning society. Without them we would have anarchy and chaos and would be able to accomplish nothing.
If you believe that all we have is our fellow man (that's the part I find depressing, but then I am extremely cynical) then it is important to work together, and help each other in order to help make our world a better place.
To be honest, he has often put me to shame in this area.
Hi, Mich!
I noticed that, too, but I'm holding off from commenting, for now. Mostly.
Different people seem to have different reasons for behaving well. And whatever their incentive, it works better for some than for others: some people don't behave well!
Some AFFers (can't remember who, or where) have actually said if it weren't for their belief in God, they would just do whatever they want all the time: robbery, murder, rape. On the one hand, I don't quite believe them: at least it's hyperbole, I think. On the other hand, I would never try to talk them out of believing what they do! :LOL
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I noticed that, too, but I'm holding off from commenting, for now. Mostly.
Different people seem to have different reasons for behaving well. And whatever their incentive, it works better for some than for others: some people don't behave well!
Some AFFers (can't remember who, or where) have actually said if it weren't for their belief in God, they would just do whatever they want all the time: robbery, murder, rape. On the one hand, I don't quite believe them: at least it's hyperbole, I think. On the other hand, I would never try to talk them out of believing what they do! :LOL
I do remember posting here around the time I got married, or shortly after, and someone admonishing me for marrying an atheist, and basically implying that without a belief in Hell (and I guess God by default), what incentive would my husband have to be faithful to me!?! Ummmm..because I'm awesome?
), reliable, etc. Some aren't so wonderful. I can say the same for my unbelieving acquaintances. So now, I'm wondering: are Christians in general better than non-Christians? Is a random person on the street more likely to be "good" if you discover that he or she is a believer?
Hybrid Mode
