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03-29-2010, 05:52 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
As far as false doctrine and imminent threats to the church goes... Do you think "Magic Hair" is an Achilles Heel of sorts?
For me, concerns about HMH "holy magic hair" is not at the top of the list.
I am far more concerned about radical sectarianism in the UPC.
We have evolved into something of a group that has difficulty seeing the work of Christ outside the Oneness Pentecostal movements.
Among the Oneness Pentecostals we even ostracize those who share the views of many of our founders on salvation.
The language and interpretation of the AOF also reflect this.
We reject those "Charismatics" yet many of our teachers still embrace teachings that we should have outgrown by now. How many are teaching
"God does not want you to be sick"?
or
"God wants to bless you with wealth"?
or
"You can have whatever you want tonight!"?
How many teach that they absolutely know the will of God in these things, and the missing component is simply the individuals faith?
Where is the sovereignty of God in all this?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-29-2010 at 07:39 PM.
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03-29-2010, 07:18 PM
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Re: More Important Than the HMH Debate
hmmm I think you will be picking a fight with many denoms on this not just the UPCI... doctrine divides most of the time as it is the nature of it.
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03-29-2010, 07:21 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: More Important Than the HMH Debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist
hmmm I think you will be picking a fight with many denoms on this not just the UPCI... doctrine divides most of the time as it is the nature of it.
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No doubt. I am only mentioning the denomination because that is my primary exposure.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2010, 07:35 PM
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Registered Member
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Re: More Important Than the HMH Debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
No doubt. I am only mentioning the denomination because that is my primary exposure.
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gotcha... 
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03-29-2010, 08:05 PM
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Accepts all friends requests
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
I agree with you Hoovie.
For some, however, I think the whole woman's hair thing has become one of the key points in defining the radical sectarianism. People have been aggressively pushing this sectarian agenda ever since the merger and the sectarian extremists have had the upper hand.
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03-29-2010, 08:18 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
I see the HMH issue as a means actually of an "us vs them" mindset.
It says "Our women are speshul, yours are not. Ladies you are speshul, stay in the boat or you'll lose the glory of God". Not only does it contribute to sectarianism but it's being used as coercion to reinforce the uncut hair doctrine and create a momma's boy church
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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03-29-2010, 08:32 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I see the HMH issue as a means actually of an "us vs them" mindset.
It says "Our women are speshul, yours are not. Ladies you are speshul, stay in the boat or you'll lose the glory of God". Not only does it contribute to sectarianism but it's being used as coercion to reinforce the uncut hair doctrine and create a momma's boy church
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My mind goes to one of my daughters - ten yr old... yesterday she shared with us that she is being considered for a church "club" and was going to give a speech to try and "get in". She asked if she could practice on us and we agreed. She first listed all the qualities, service and talents she brought with her... then ended it by saying... "Just in case this has not convinced you... may I remind you Jesus instructs you to love everyone. Not letting me in your club would not be showing me love would it?" 
They let her in!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2010, 10:14 PM
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Incredible India
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Location: Ca
Posts: 6,044
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I agree with you Hoovie.
For some, however, I think the whole woman's hair thing has become one of the key points in defining the radical sectarianism. People have been aggressively pushing this sectarian agenda ever since the merger and the sectarian extremists have had the upper hand.
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I was thinking this myself.
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03-30-2010, 12:39 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I agree with you Hoovie.
For some, however, I think the whole woman's hair thing has become one of the key points in defining the radical sectarianism. People have been aggressively pushing this sectarian agenda ever since the merger and the sectarian extremists have had the upper hand.
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I see that too I guess. HMH is simply one of the current tools...
The greatest and most devastating tool though is the one that says we have the special revelation and correct doctrine, and unless you come to Christ our way you have false experience.
Once we acknowledge Christ is in our fellow Christians, not because of, but in spite of our differences, then a lot of other stuff becomes less pivotal as well.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-30-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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03-29-2010, 08:17 PM
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Administrator
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Hoovie,
It is clear you have "gone charismatic". I was reared UPC and we were always right and everybody else was always wrong.
My favorite boegyman was how we would proclaim that trinitarians were just stuck in their traditions, living their parents and grandparents religion, when in fact no group of people has ever been more bound to traditions than UPC folks.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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