Noah and the Ark

[NotforSale]

Is the Ark a possible feat?

One Elephant can eat 200 lbs of food per day, and drink 50 gallons of water. Currently there are 3 species of Elephants, which would make a total of 6 on the Ark. To feed all six, for only the 4 month stay on the boat, the total food needed; 72 Tons of food, and 6000 gallons of water.

This does not include the food needed to sustain the six animals once they land on high ground. The earth being covered by water for almost 4 months would devastate the Earths eco system for food.

We also have an exercise problem. In the wild, they can cover up to 50 miles in a single day if food is scarce, but usually travel a few miles every day. But Elephants require exercise or they die prematurely.

We also have the maintenance problem. Animals in captivity require human care. With only 8 on the vessel, this floating Zoo housing millions of species is understaffed. (San Diego Zoo has about 400 Species.)

We also have the "Bathroom" problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoUfIbHo0xA

Besides the Elephants, we have other species on board needing a special "Environment" to keep them alive. Penguins need land, water, and cold temperatures. Hippo's need land and water and warm temperatures. Oh, and don't forget the "Bathroom" problem, and the food problem (Penguins need fish, Hippos need plants, and enough for 4 months of being on the high seas, plus the time of a whole new eco system developing).

We also have a Boat load of meat eaters. Tigers, alligators, Bears, Snakes, Dogs, Wolves, Ferrets, hyenas, mongooses, and so on. These fanged creatures lose their cool when they get hungry!!

And the "Bathroom" problem.

Estimates prove, the Ark could never house the millions of creatures, lacking room, food supply, sanitary conditions, exercise, and man power to care for the amount of life on Noah's Ark. Next time you go to the Zoo, look at the effort required while keeping animals in captivity.

[Arphaxad]

maybe He put them in hibernation mode?
Think about ways it could have happened, instead of going by sight.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

maybe He put them in hibernation mode?
Think about ways it could have happened, instead of going by sight.

How about this...

Why doesn't one of the multi-billionaire TV evangelists simply build an exact replica of Noah's Ark?

Why? Because it simply can't be done.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodmorappe-review.html

Some folks have tried: http://www.godsark.org/Our_Ministry_Home.html
(see attached photo).

The building code enforcement folks won't allow a wooden structure to be built that has spans greater than 300 feet unless the whole thing is reinforced with a heavy steel I-beam frame work and reinforced concrete piering and caissons. You see all of that in the attached photo.

A literal interpretation of Genesis 6 leads us to believe that Noah's Ark was a free standing building for 120 years before the flood. Why can't anyone build such a building today?

The longest wooden ships ever built were the 9 masted schooners of a little over 100 years ago. These vessels approached the 300 foot limit for wooden structures and required steam driven pumps to pump out the water that continually flowed through the gaps in the planking. They were also restricted to inland routes and were never allowed to go into the open sea.

Wood is simply too flexible a material for such large ships and structures. You need a rigid material like steel for those large spans.

Of course, it would be easy to prove me wrong... if I was wrong. But nobody can. Nobody.

There simply was never a real vessel such as "Noah's Ark." Those who demand a literal reading of Genesis 1 through Genesis 11, do the inspired Bible a tremendous disservice and actually advance the cause of atheism.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about this...

Why doesn't one of the multi-billionaire TV evangelists simply build an exact replica of Noah's Ark?

Why? Because it simply can't be done.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodmorappe-review.html

Some folks have tried: http://www.godsark.org/Our_Ministry_Home.html
(see attached photo).

The building code enforcement folks won't allow a wooden structure to be built that has spans greater than 300 feet unless the whole thing is reinforced with a heavy steel I-beam frame work and reinforced concrete piering and caissons. You see all of that in the attached photo.

A literal interpretation of Genesis 6 leads us to believe that Noah's Ark was a free standing building for 120 years before the flood. Why can't anyone build such a building today?

The longest wooden ship ever built were the 9 masted schooners of a little over 100 years ago. These vessels approached the 300 foot limit for wooden structures and required steam driven pumps to pump out the water that continually flowed through the gaps in the planking. They were also restricted to inland routes and were never allowed to go into the open sea.

Wood is simply too flexible a material for such large ships and structures. You need a rigid material like steel for those large spans.

Of course, it would be easy to prove me wrong... if I was wrong. But nobody can. Nobody.

There simply was never a real vessel such as "Noah's Ark." Those who demand a literal reading of Genesis 1 through Genesis 11, do the inspired Bible a tremendous disservice and actually advance the cause of atheism.

Wow, great stuff!!!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about this...

Why doesn't one of the multi-billionaire TV evangelists simply build an exact replica of Noah's Ark?

Why? Because it simply can't be done.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodmorappe-review.html

Some folks have tried: http://www.godsark.org/Our_Ministry_Home.html
(see attached photo).

The building code enforcement folks won't allow a wooden structure to be built that has spans greater than 300 feet unless the whole thing is reinforced with a heavy steel I-beam frame work and reinforced concrete piering and caissons. You see all of that in the attached photo.

A literal interpretation of Genesis 6 leads us to believe that Noah's Ark was a free standing building for 120 years before the flood. Why can't anyone build such a building today?

The longest wooden ships ever built were the 9 masted schooners of a little over 100 years ago. These vessels approached the 300 foot limit for wooden structures and required steam driven pumps to pump out the water that continually flowed through the gaps in the planking. They were also restricted to inland routes and were never allowed to go into the open sea.

Wood is simply too flexible a material for such large ships and structures. You need a rigid material like steel for those large spans.

Of course, it would be easy to prove me wrong... if I was wrong. But nobody can. Nobody.

There simply was never a real vessel such as "Noah's Ark." Those who demand a literal reading of Genesis 1 through Genesis 11, do the inspired Bible a tremendous disservice and actually advance the cause of atheism.

I'm just guessing here but
1)I'm guessing that Genesis doesn't contain the exact detailed instructions of how to build the Ark, but gives us a general description.
2)I'm guessing that if God specifically told Noah how to build it, it would work for the purpose He planned it
3)I'm guessing that if God didn't want it to sink, it wouldn't sink if it had wide open gaping holes in it.

Basically I don't see how any Christian can say the flood story is just allegorical. The Bible doesn't present it as an allegory, but as something that actually happened. Jesus refers to it in Matthew 24, and Peter does in 1 Peter.

Frankly, the God who created all things, who created the universe, the stars, the oceans, and is present even to the depths of those oceans, is more than able to simply keep a boat afloat some water, and make all situations work out according to his purpose, whether or not there are still I beams and concrete.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I'm just guessing here but
1)I'm guessing that Genesis doesn't contain the exact detailed instructions of how to build the Ark, but gives us a general description.
2)I'm guessing that if God specifically told Noah how to build it, it would work for the purpose He planned it
3)I'm guessing that if God didn't want it to sink, it wouldn't sink if it had wide open gaping holes in it.

It clearly states that the ark was 450 feet in length. Why has NO ONE ever tried to build an all wooden structure 450 feet in length? Why is it, in fact, illegal to do so?

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Basically I don't see how any Christian can say the flood story is just allegorical. The Bible doesn't present it as an allegory, but as something that actually happened. Jesus refers to it in Matthew 24, and Peter does in 1 Peter.

They are referring to literature that everyone was already familiar with. Even in that day there were disputes as to whether the story of the Flood was supposed to be understood as literal or not. The Talmud records debates on the subject going back long before Jesus Christ.

For whatever reasons, neither Jesus nor Peter take a position on that debate. Instead they go for the truths that are in the story and bring those things out. "God is longsuffering and patient... yet when it's time for judgment, judgment will come..."

It is your own mindset that causes you to read those passages as "proof." Read them again without the prejudice.

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Frankly, the God who created all things, who created the universe, the stars, the oceans, and is present even to the depths of those oceans, is more than able to simply keep a boat afloat some water, and make all situations work out according to his purpose, whether or not there are still I beams and concrete.

AGAIN (and again!) - I's not a question of "WHAT CAN GOD DO...???"

It's a question of "WHAT DID GOD DO...???"

What really happened? What does the evidence show?

Nobody saw O.J. Simpson kill those people. The only possible "eyewitness" was O.J. himself and he said he didn't do it.

Yet, what conclusions do you reach about that case - based upon the evidence?

We rely upon evidence for helping us to formulate all sorts of very important views about the world. Why is there no evidence for a global flood in the geologic record? Why hasn't anyone even tried to make a case for it?

Instead there's just been some "Well, I BELIEVE..." type statements and a couple of taunts. If this was some sort of BIBLE DOCTRINE surely there would have been something brought forward by now... but nothing.

There simply is no evidence whatsoever that the continents were covered by a global flood some 4,000 years ago.

None.

So why try to drown the Bible and its message in those waters?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It clearly states that the ark was 450 feet in length. Why has NO ONE ever tried to build an all wooden structure 450 feet in length? Why is it, in fact, illegal to do so?

They are referring to literature that everyone was already familiar with. Even in that day there were disputes as to whether the story of the Flood was supposed to be understood as literal or not. The Talmud records debates on the subject going back long before Jesus Christ.

For whatever reasons, neither Jesus nor Peter take a position on that debate. Instead they go for the truths that are in the story and bring those things out. "God is longsuffering and patient... yet when it's time for judgment, judgment will come..."

It is your own mindset that causes you to read those passages as "proof." Read them again without the prejudice.

AGAIN (and again!) - I's not a question of "WHAT CAN GOD DO...???"

It's a question of "WHAT DID GOD DO...???"

What really happened? What does the evidence show?

Nobody saw O.J. Simpson kill those people. The only possible "eyewitness" was O.J. himself and he said he didn't do it.

Yet, what conclusions do you reach about that case - based upon the evidence?

We rely upon evidence for helping us to formulate all sorts of very important views about the world. Why is there no evidence for a global flood in the geologic record? Why hasn't anyone even tried to make a case for it?

Instead there's just been some "Well, I BELIEVE..." type statements and a couple of taunts. If this was some sort of BIBLE DOCTRINE surely there would have been something brought forward by now... but nothing.

There simply is no evidence whatsoever that the continents were covered by a global flood some 4,000 years ago.

None.

So why try to drown the Bible and its message in those waters?

Actually I have heard they found fossils of fish bones at the top of one of the mountains. It has been so many years ago, I don't recall who gave the information, I know it was a minister many years ago.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It clearly states that the ark was 450 feet in length. Why has NO ONE ever tried to build an all wooden structure 450 feet in length? Why is it, in fact, illegal to do so?

The answer to this question is quite simple, actually. The fact is, the best and most efficient way to float a structure on water is a wooden building 450 long. I'm surprised a man of your intellect doesn't know that. There's a giant worldwide conspiracy to discredit the story of Noah and the Ark by making it illegal to build a boat just like it. If someone were able to build it, it would be shown that Noah had it all figured out and the literal account of the flood would be proven!

Come on, Pel, get your facts straight! After all, experts built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark (or whatever that saying is).

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I'm just guessing here but
1)I'm guessing that Genesis doesn't contain the exact detailed instructions of how to build the Ark, but gives us a general description.
2)I'm guessing that if God specifically told Noah how to build it, it would work for the purpose He planned it
3)I'm guessing that if God didn't want it to sink, it wouldn't sink if it had wide open gaping holes in it.

Basically I don't see how any Christian can say the flood story is just allegorical. The Bible doesn't present it as an allegory, but as something that actually happened. Jesus refers to it in Matthew 24, and Peter does in 1 Peter.

Frankly, the God who created all things, who created the universe, the stars, the oceans, and is present even to the depths of those oceans, is more than able to simply keep a boat afloat some water, and make all situations work out according to his purpose, whether or not there are still I beams and concrete.

This is an interesting post. All 3 of your first statements start out with; I'm guessing.

You say that it (Noah's Ark and the Flood) actually happened. My question is, what is your basis for having such a strong feeling that it did?

Another question is this; Is it possible it didn't? Will you even consider it didn't?

I think it is dangerous and irresponsible to follow an Ancient writing (s) that can't be proven. Another post in this thread talked about many other "Miracles" that can't be proven, yet we believe them without question even though our own experiences and good science counters what has been handed down to us as Facts.

The more I live, the more I see that people of yesterday could be told many things with no way to prove otherwise. But now, we are well able to look at our whole Globe doing research that brings accountability to those who've been guilty of presenting outlandish claims that defy common sense, the balance of nature, and a God of mercy and love.

I haven't talked much about other problems with the Flood other than a scientific response, but I also have a very deep problem with portraying God as wanting to wipe the Earth clean of evil, leaving only 8 people as survivors. To me, this is not only heartless but makes no sense. God is all knowing and could see into the future that this plan wouldn't work.

Wiping out the entire human race was, and is, really the only cure to stop man’s continued failure. And, if we believe in the Great Flood, we see that man just got off the boat to start all over again with his evil agenda.

The Great Flood carries a host of moral and ethical problems that taint God as a tyrant, and I refuse to feel this way about a Father in Heaven who made us, knowing we are pitiful and are in dire need of mercy. Humans are weak and we fail miserably. There's no rocket science in knowing that. We cycle in and out of moral chaos and our struggles to maintain an honest existence is always dipping into the doom of failure.

When I see children, the handicapped, crying mothers, and helpless elderly people screaming as waters drown them, my heart breaks trying to conceive that Jesus, the one who said, "Allow the little children to come unto me" is being labeled the person responsible for this mass slaughter. I more than struggle with this and refuse to darken my heart with concepts that can't be proven to be true.

You can call this heresy, doubt, or rebellion, but in this life I’ve learned how helpless we are at times and that people can be so unfortunate. My wife was sexually abused for the first 9 years of her life by her father. He recently died in prison as a sex offender. She told me it took over 20 years to be able to call God her Father. You think about this. Her mind is a delicate place and one thing said in the wrong context can leave her in a mental war for days, if not weeks.

The World is full of people like this (past and present) and we are in desperate need of a Savior. I’ve fallen on my face and pleaded with God to help my heart to understand that the World doesn’t need a Great Flood, the World needs the “Great Blood”. Calvary I can conceive, the Flood of Noah I cannot.

I think Christianity needs to stop looking at life through an "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" lens.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This is an interesting post. All 3 of your first statements start out with; I'm guessing.

You say that it (Noah's Ark and the Flood) actually happened. My question is, what is your basis for having such a strong feeling that it did?

Another question is this; Is it possible it didn't? Will you even consider it didn't?

I think it is dangerous and irresponsible to follow an Ancient writing (s) that can't be proven. Another post in this thread talked about many other "Miracles" that can't be proven, yet we believe them without question even though our own experiences and good science counters what has been handed down to us as Facts.

The more I live, the more I see that people of yesterday could be told many things with no way to prove otherwise. But now, we are well able to look at our whole Globe doing research that brings accountability to those who've been guilty of presenting outlandish claims that defy common sense, the balance of nature, and a God of mercy and love.

I haven't talked much about other problems with the Flood other than a scientific response, but I also have a very deep problem with portraying God as wanting to wipe the Earth clean of evil, leaving only 8 people as survivors. To me, this is not only heartless but makes no sense. God is all knowing and could see into the future that this plan wouldn't work.

Wiping out the entire human race was, and is, really the only cure to stop man’s continued failure. And, if we believe in the Great Flood, we see that man just got off the boat to start all over again with his evil agenda.

The Great Flood carries a host of moral and ethical problems that taint God as a tyrant, and I refuse to feel this way about a Father in Heaven who made us, knowing we are pitiful and are in dire need of mercy. Humans are weak and we fail miserably. There's no rocket science in knowing that. We cycle in and out of moral chaos and our struggles to maintain an honest existence is always dipping into the doom of failure.

When I see children, the handicapped, crying mothers, and helpless elderly people screaming as waters drown them, my heart breaks trying to conceive that Jesus, the one who said, "Allow the little children to come unto me" is being labeled the person responsible for this mass slaughter. I more than struggle with this and refuse to darken my heart with concepts that can't be proven to be true.

You can call this heresy, doubt, or rebellion, but in this life I’ve learned how helpless we are at times and that people can be so unfortunate. My wife was sexually abused for the first 9 years of her life by her father. He recently died in prison as a sex offender. She told me it took over 20 years to be able to call God her Father. You think about this. Her mind is a delicate place and one thing said in the wrong context can leave her in a mental war for days, if not weeks.

The World is full of people like this (past and present) and we are in desperate need of a Savior. I’ve fallen on my face and pleaded with God to help my heart to understand that the World doesn’t need a Great Flood, the World needs the “Great Blood”. Calvary I can conceive, the Flood of Noah I cannot.

I think Christianity needs to stop looking at life through an "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" lens.

Do you believe that there is a hell? Do you believe the scripture that says the road to hell is wide and the way to heaven is a narrow road and few be that find it? (paraphased)

My concern with people trying to minimize the punishment God used on the people of the earth is that that same mindset will cause many to be lost thinking "God loves me and therefore He won't send me to hell". And He doesn't, you chose whether to obey His Word or not.

And for those who don't believe there was a flood, have you ever seen a rainbow?

God gave it as a reminder He would never cover the earth with water again, but the next time He would use fire.