Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters
Facebook

Notices

Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-26-2009, 03:10 PM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Help me with some spiritual thoughts

I once preached a message about Elisha and the axe head that fell into Jordan and was retrieved by throwing a "stick" in the river causing the axe head to rise and return. I see this as a type of resurrection by the cross. STICK in Hebrew is the same word translated as TREE or GALLOWS. And they way they hanged people in those days was not by rope or noose, but gibbeting, or hanging by the hands, like the crucifixion.

I firmly believe all Old Testament stories point to New Testament experiencing shadow, such as, primarily of course, the salvation by the cross.

WHat migh the AXE HEAD stand for? I considered it stood for Christ, our HEAD. He was kinda "lost" from the disciples when He went away in death. The two on the road to Emaus even related their fears after His death in wondering what they could do. But we know he had to GO in death. But He resurrected.

All of the work done with Elisha and the sons of the prophets at Jordan was to cut wood to prepare PLACE for the students to dwell with Elisha and continue to learn of Him. I cannot help but be reminded of Jesus dying to prepare a PLACE for us in the kingdom. I see the kingdom now in the Spirit. But that is not my point. The "work" at Jordan by John the baptist involved him speaking of us as trees who needed to be cut down in repentance -- and he baptized people in his ministry of repentance.

Or could the AXE HEAD indicate our MINDS that must be renewed in order to die with Christ, and learn how the "TREE" of the cross and its message must be applied to our HEAD in order to see us resurrect with Him in newness of life?

Anyway, any thoughts on the typology of this axe head that did swim?
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-26-2009, 03:20 PM
Digging4Truth's Avatar
Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
Still Figuring It Out.


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

I have nothing constructive to add at this point other than this.

This is the word that was translated axe head.

Quote:
Strong's H1270 - barzel
ברזל

Transliteration
barzel

Pronunciation
bar·zel' (Key)

Part of Speech
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
perhaps from the root of H1269
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) iron
a) iron
1) iron ore
2) as material of furniture, utensils, implements

2) tool of iron
3) harshness, strength, oppression (fig.)


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 76
AV — iron 73, (axe) head 2, smith + 02796 1
This states that the root of this word was possibly...

Quote:
Strong's H1269 - Birzowth
ברזות

Transliteration
Birzowth

Pronunciation
bēr·zoth' (Key)

Part of Speech
proper feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)
probably fem. pl. from an unused root

Outline of Biblical Usage
Birzavith or Birzath = "in leanness: choice olive"
1) a descendant of Asher

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1
AV — Birzavith 1
I have nothing to add beyond that. But I thought I would post it here.

Last edited by Digging4Truth; 08-26-2009 at 03:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-26-2009, 03:35 PM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Thanks, bro. I thought of how IRON sharpens IRON, referring to each of us useful in honing the other through our fellowship.

The english rendered it axe head, since the IRON obviously is placed as a "head" on the axe in visual imagery, though HEAD is not the literal meaning.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:21 PM
Neubill's Avatar
Neubill Neubill is offline
Which one is the freak?


 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 246
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

When I saw 'iron,' I thought about the nine inch pieces of iron that went into The Master's hands and feet.
__________________
I’m not a scholar, just a crazy Jewish Believer who wants to see no one deceived and everyone saved.

Shalom uv’racha b’shem Yeshua Mishikheinu!
Peace and blessings unto you in the Name of Yeshua, Our Messiah!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rosh Hashanah: The Festival of Trumpets
Thank you Yeshua, our King! We patiently wait for your return.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-27-2009, 09:50 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neubill View Post
When I saw 'iron,' I thought about the nine inch pieces of iron that went into The Master's hands and feet.
Wow. Thanks.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:59 AM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,451
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I once preached a message about Elisha and the axe head that fell into Jordan and was retrieved by throwing a "stick" in the river causing the axe head to rise and return. I see this as a type of resurrection by the cross. STICK in Hebrew is the same word translated as TREE or GALLOWS. And they way they hanged people in those days was not by rope or noose, but gibbeting, or hanging by the hands, like the crucifixion.

I firmly believe all Old Testament stories point to New Testament experiencing shadow, such as, primarily of course, the salvation by the cross.

WHat migh the AXE HEAD stand for? I considered it stood for Christ, our HEAD. He was kinda "lost" from the disciples when He went away in death. The two on the road to Emaus even related their fears after His death in wondering what they could do. But we know he had to GO in death. But He resurrected.

All of the work done with Elisha and the sons of the prophets at Jordan was to cut wood to prepare PLACE for the students to dwell with Elisha and continue to learn of Him. I cannot help but be reminded of Jesus dying to prepare a PLACE for us in the kingdom. I see the kingdom now in the Spirit. But that is not my point. The "work" at Jordan by John the baptist involved him speaking of us as trees who needed to be cut down in repentance -- and he baptized people in his ministry of repentance.

Or could the AXE HEAD indicate our MINDS that must be renewed in order to die with Christ, and learn how the "TREE" of the cross and its message must be applied to our HEAD in order to see us resurrect with Him in newness of life?

Anyway, any thoughts on the typology of this axe head that did swim?
It's an exchange of proeprties.... That which sank under the weight of it's own being was exchagned with the properties of the stick which could float. He was the exchange of our weight/guilt/penalty/iron. Thus again it point to rising out of water/life/baptism.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-27-2009, 09:59 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
It's an exchange of proeprties.... That which sank under the weight of it's own being was exchagned with the properties of the stick which could float. He was the exchange of our weight/guilt/penalty/iron. Thus again it point to rising out of water/life/baptism.
Amen. More great thoughts!

There is definitely a resurrection involved here, since the iron sank and returned. And when the tree went into the water, the ide ao fthe cross applied is certainly involved.

Here are some more thoughts.

Jordan was always a demarcation point of crossing over into ministry. Elijah, Elisha, Joshua and even Jesus began their ministries at Jordan. We can apply this to Christians needing to enter ministry or to general salvation of a sinner. I see the Red Sea dividing in the Exodus as separation from sin and the Jordan dividing as separation from carnality. In both cases, the cross is applied.

Gal 5 mentions that Christ's followers have crucified the flesh with its affections, even though we know the Galatians and many others manifest works of the flesh. So the cross needs to be applied to more than just sin. And this occurs long after we are saved. We apply the cross to healing when we need it, and there is this need to apply it to the issue of carnality. Just as the doubting elders in the Exodus had to die before the younger could enter in, this old way of "Egyptian" (Egypt representing the world out of which we were saved) carnal thinking must go before we enter the true Kingdom life represented by Canaan.

Jordan is like a flesh barrier that must be breached.

John the Baptist spoke of cutting trees that bear bad fruit with axes, and carnality and works of the flesh are bad fruit from a bad tree!
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:05 AM
Trouvere's Avatar
Trouvere Trouvere is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 4,184
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Here you go Brother Blume.
Think of the AXE and the root of the trees, Calvary and the finished work.Then
think of what will be done in the last judgement.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:34 AM
John Atkinson John Atkinson is offline
*sigh*


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 1,998
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Similar thoughts with slightly different spin,

Iron
  • Iron is of the earth, a "base" metal.
  • Iron is corruptible in that it decays (rusts especially in water)
  • In Deut 27 the children were instructed to build an altar at the crossing of Jordan, and forbidden to use iron tools on it (the base touching the holy)
  • The Lord used "yoke of iron" to illustrate the bondage of the people if they chose not to obey God (things intended for service in bondage to base things.
The Jordan
  • Waters represent a barrier, in this case a barrier between the iron axe head and the light of day, the axe was lost, hidden from sight. Also water will corrupt and destroy iron.
The head of the Axe
  • A tool fashioned by man from a base metal of the earth
  • Lost in the darkness of the deep. decaying and dying.
  • Note that the axe head was "borrowed" (for ye are not your own--- bought with a price)
Bottom Line!
  • The stick (cross) by the power of God (Elisha -- type of Christ) lifted the base creation from the miry depths (into the light) and returned it to it's rightful owner (In our case JESUS!) where properly cared for it will last forever!
Ephesians 2:6 KJVR
(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

May not mean all that but it is a good illustration anyway!
__________________

My Countdown Counting down to: End of the World
It's all over, fat lady done sang...

Last edited by John Atkinson; 10-01-2009 at 09:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2009, 10:37 AM
Pressing-On's Avatar
Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
Not riding the train


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
Re: Help me with some spiritual thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Atkinson View Post

Bottom Line!
  • The stick (cross) by the power of God (Elisha -- type of Christ) lifted the base creation from the miry depths (into the light) and returned it to it's rightful owner (In our case JESUS!) where properly cared for it will last forever!
Ephesians 2:6 KJVR
(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
I like that!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Appearing Spiritual Rather Than Being Spiritual. Scott Hutchinson Fellowship Hall 15 11-07-2012 08:13 AM
Let's see what 'Spiritual Wisdom' we really have Available... Steadfast Deep Waters 146 02-19-2012 12:53 AM
Spiritual Stalkers My Own Eyes Fellowship Hall 69 04-10-2008 06:57 PM
Are some of you on Spiritual LSD? BoredOutOfMyMind Fellowship Hall 9 03-25-2007 04:29 PM
Are Apostolics Any More Spiritual Than Others Who Believe? Michael The Disciple Deep Waters 17 03-09-2007 02:29 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.