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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 07-28-2008, 01:26 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW being...

... abolished. Does anyone have OT scripture that the LAW of God would be abolished or done away with?

We have covenants and then we have the Law of God. God's covenants always reflect his revealed eternal nature/law.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:56 PM
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Ron Ron is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

God's moral law still stands.
That is eternal.

All that we have in the NT is Grace which not only gives us a remedy for sin, but helps us to live above it.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:25 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
God's moral law still stands.
That is eternal.

All that we have in the NT is Grace which not only gives us a remedy for sin, but helps us to live above it.
If one wants to find out what is sin or not you can read it in the NT
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:30 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
If one wants to find out what is sin or not you can read it in the NT
Yup. Like this verse:

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:15 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Yup. Like this verse:

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2008, 08:38 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Again I need OT scripture. Also what is SIN? Anything without faith. What is the proper understanding of faith. It's when God's Word is revealed through scripture or Spirit and you respond properly to it. Thus when Moses is read..... Act 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues." or God's Word is given forth or revealed and it speaks to you... you respond properly(faith) or you don't (sin) If you don't respond properly you are missing the mark thus is sin. To know to do right and doeth not it is SIN!

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

what law??? Does God's nature change?

Rom 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

If you are ignorant of God's will/law your knowledge will not condemn you but if you know what to do and doeth it not per God's revealed Word to you it is sin. As you have not repsonded properly(faith).


Heb 11:6 And without faith(proper response to his Word or works) it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

The law cannot be done away as it judges and heaven and earth shall pass away before can be done away. Because judgement canot be if there is no law.

Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Rev 21:6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
Rev 21:7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."


Was this spoken of by our Messiah?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (MAKE THEM FULL OR REVEALED OR KNOWN) He did and still is!
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (WHICH IS THE JUDGMENT OF ALL MENS SINS AND DEATH IS DESTROYED)
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2008, 07:40 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Yup. Like this verse:

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

LOL! hmmm amazing how that comes back to the Mosaic Covenant
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2008, 07:53 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
If one wants to find out what is sin or not you can read it in the NT

Prax this is in part true. Paul stated the the LAW showed us SIN! Paul or any other apostle does not have to go and point out every sin again they already had the list. Whether they be sins against the body or God.

Paul and John already pointed to the LAW and what is right. To transgress the laws that God wanted his people to do was sin.
The basis of the law is about love, thus due what God commands without all your soul, might and strength. Love your neighbor and be a blessing to them through loving the commandments of God and to act in stewarship to the world around you. Thus loving the things God has provided.
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:33 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447 View Post
Prax this is in part true. Paul stated the the LAW showed us SIN! Paul or any other apostle does not have to go and point out every sin again they already had the list. Whether they be sins against the body or God.

Paul and John already pointed to the LAW and what is right. To transgress the laws that God wanted his people to do was sin.
The basis of the law is about love, thus due what God commands without all your soul, might and strength. Love your neighbor and be a blessing to them through loving the commandments of God and to act in stewarship to the world around you. Thus loving the things God has provided.
Paul states he did not know sin but by the law, that it was a school master to lead us to Christ. There are so many commandments under the law, like food laws, that are no longer binding.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:58 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW bein

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Paul states he did not know sin but by the law, that it was a school master to lead us to Christ. There are so many commandments under the law, like food laws, that are no longer binding.
Again does God want you healthy? What was the point of the food laws? To make a healthy nation!

SImple question? Do you want God FULL in your life? That means complete! That would be both physical and spiritual. Of course the spiritual is most important but don't think God does not care about your physical health as well. Then why do you not heed what he says about health! Forget whether is it sin unto death.

Again, I have not seen any scripture that the LAW of God was ever to be done away by the OT. What we do see is that God said it would be put on our hearts! Paul confirms this!

Also food is not a spiritually binding thing as it is a physical law. Paul main focus was on spiritual application. It does not diminish though the reason for dietary laws. Food does not defile one spiritually it can physically defile you health butnot your spiritual as that is a matter what springs forth from it.
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