The Spirit of Abortion

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The pass you say would not have been given has been offered many times on different forums we are familiar with. I would have been better not to vent on AFF.

I think it's healthy ... PP. Really.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The pass you say would not have been given has been offered many times on different forums we are familiar with. I would have been better not to vent on AFF.

I can assure you that the pass would not have been given by me. I can only speak for myself on that one but it is not a common opinion among the UPCI men I fellowship.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You're still a chump ....

s'all good man.. you're reaching 40!!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by philjones

PP,

Apology accepted as offered!

You are mistaken, however, regarding the pass you would be given for making a foolish statement like "sports is killing our kids". That is preposterous and certainly not typical of most UPC pastors I know. If that has been typical of your experience, I am sorry!

As for the abortion issue, please revisit my posts and see that I deny that there is INTENT to kill in the hearts of these you are opposed to. They may occasionally have a miscarriage but they are NOT abortionists. Big difference in my book between an abortionist and a woman who has a miscarriage. Do you see my point and why I find it offensive.

While I am personally conservative, I do not use my personal stand as a basis for fellowship. I have dear friends in both camps (think Elder Epley and Old Paths and NLYP and Ronzo).

Either way, I pray that you settle your issues and come to a place of peace without destroying others in the process.

No hard feelings or offense here!

Is there a difference in abortion and killing someone who is a baby?

No. Both are murder. I've seen both happen, and yes, it was intentional. Nothing was done to save them. The church was even told to leave them alone....they know the truth and they know where the church is.

If that's not intentional homicide, I don't know what is.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

s'all good man.. you're reaching 40!!

Berk ... by your own admission I look younger than you ... try ROGAINE.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Berk ... by your own admission I look younger than you ... try ROGAINE.

yeah, that's the way people think around here!! lol

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Is there a difference in abortion and killing someone who is a baby?

No. Both are murder. I've seen both happen, and yes, it was intentional. Nothing was done to save them. The church was even told to leave them alone....they know the truth and they know where the church is.

If that's not intentional homicide, I don't know what is.

Sister, I don't believe any minister would intentionally harm innocents. But there are things that some of us do that make the way too hard for them.
The end result is the same, a child that can not make it.

That was my only point - really.

There is an extreme element that makes it too hard.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Is there a difference in abortion and killing someone who is a baby?

No. Both are murder. I've seen both happen, and yes, it was intentional. Nothing was done to save them. The church was even told to leave them alone....they know the truth and they know where the church is.

If that's not intentional homicide, I don't know what is.

Sis,

I apologize that you have witnessed this. I would be appalled by it as you are. However, I would not then characterize the group he belonged to by his actions.

I certainly cannot argue your experience and would not attempt to do so. i will, however, say that I have never had such an experience nor have I been close to anyone who has. My experience has been with pastors that have been willing to lay down their lives and neglect their families in order to see children be born and mature into productive sons and daughters of God.

That is my testimony and I believe it is much more common than yours.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Sister, I don't believe any minister would intentionally harm innocents. But there are things that some of us do that make the way too hard for them.
The end result is the same, a child that can not make it.

That was my only point - really.

There is an extreme element that makes it too hard.

Under the guise of GOD NEVER CHANGES ....

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Sister, I don't believe any minister would intentionally harm innocents. But there are things that some of us do that make the way too hard for them.
The end result is the same, a child that can not make it.

That was my only point - really.

There is an extreme element that makes it too hard.

I would agree with you had it not happened in the church I was raised in......and had it happen to me in that same church. I don't believe it's common. In fact, the intentional side of it is rare, IMO. People are written off as troublemakers or rebellious.

My first pastor, who's church I attended from the age of 5 to 18, told a friend of mine that I would never amount to anything, be on welfare all my life, have kids by different fathers, and live on the street. I was 25 with two children when he told her that. His daughter-in-law told me that I'd never make it on my own, and she gave me three months when I moved away from home. Well, it's been 12 years and I've never been back.

My own mother, who was a product of this church, thought I was going to be in prison by the time I was 18 and has just in the past 4-5 years realized that kind of person I really am. She used to tell me that I was undeserving of my own children because of the rotten person I was....the person she thought I was anyway.

There were very few people in that church, a place I grew up in, people I considered to be family, who ever had a good word to say about me. I was lied about, talked about, punished for things I didn't do, and persecuted. I watched my brother excel, even going to Bible college, and everyone talked well about him....until the pastor found him watching the Desert Storm footage on TV once. He was sat down from teaching Sunday School. He hasn't been back to church since...and that was almost 20 years ago.

I wish I'd never been raised in the church. I'd have a completely different opinion of it.

Sorry for rambling, but this isn't just talk or hearsay. I lived it.