Scummy Pot

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Amos

Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Is that the best you can find? It doesn't say God would take the healing away. It says something worse. The brother who preached this message gave a specific example where God was going to take a healing back over someone not repenting and He said it was Bible. The scripture you provided is a different scenario altogether. Thank you for responding though.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Rico

Is that the best you can find? It doesn't say God would take the healing away. It says something worse. The brother who preached this message gave a specific example where God was going to take a healing back over someone not repenting and He said it was Bible. The scripture you provided is a different scenario altogether. Thank you for responding though.

Rico,

While I don't think the situation you reference in the message would be very common, I don't think the lack of specific chapter and verse support renders it an impossibility.

If you will pardon a personal example, I prayed for a lady with Chrones Disease, and she was totally healed. The doctors confirmed it and were mystified.

A couple of years later, she got offended at me over a complete misunderstanding, and grew very bitter.

Sadly, the disease came back. I wept and prayed for her healing, but she finally walked out of the church, still bitter, still diseased.

Not everu possible work of the Holy Ghost is layed out in black and white Scripture.

As long as it doesn't violate the Scripture, it might be wise not to say "God didn't do that," or "God wouldn't do that."

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Amos

Rico,

While I don't think the situation you reference in the message would be very common, I don't think the lack of specific chapter and verse support renders it an impossibility.

If you will pardon a personal example, I prayed for a lady with Chrones Disease, and she was totally healed. The doctors confirmed it and were mystified.

A couple of years later, she got offended at me over a complete misunderstanding, and grew very bitter.

Sadly, the disease came back. I wept and prayed for her healing, but she finally walked out of the church, still bitter, still diseased.

Not everu possible work of the Holy Ghost is layed out in black and white Scripture.

As long as it doesn't violate the Scripture, it might be wise not to say "God didn't do that," or "God wouldn't do that."

You are missing the point. This brother specifically said what he was explaining about God taking away this woman's healing was Bible. That is why I am asking for proof, because he said it was in the Bible. I have never found an instance in the Bible where God took someone's healing away from them over them not repenting. I am basing my question on what he said, not what is a possible scenario.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Rico

You are missing the point. This brother specifically said what he was explaining about God taking away this woman's healing was Bible. That is why I am asking for proof, because he said it was in the Bible. I have never found an instance in the Bible where God took someone's healing away from them over them not repenting. I am basing my question on what he said, not what is a possible scenario.

It has been years since I heard the sermon, but I seem to remember that he said God spoke to him about that particular lady, and told him this would happen.

My old memory is certainly not the best, but I need to dig out a copy of the message and listen again.

I don't recall his exact wording.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Amos

It has been years since I heard the sermon, but I seem to remember that he said God spoke to him about that particular lady, and told him this would happen.

My old memory is certainly not the best, but I need to dig out a copy of the message and listen again.

I don't recall his exact wording.

Yes, he did say that. But he also said what was going to happen to her was Bible, hence the question on my part. I'm not questioning whether God said this to him or not. I am questioning his claim that it was Bible. See the difference?

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Rico

Yes, he did say that. But he also said what was going to happen to her was Bible, hence the question on my part. I'm not questioning whether God said this to him or not. I am questioning his claim that it was Bible. See the difference?

Was he speaking of the Biblical authority of binding and loosing?

And saying that what the Lord has spoken to him was an application of that principle?

If my memory serves me correctly, that was the context.

He said the Lord said to him that what she did not know was that the same hand that loosed her could also bind her.

I think if you will listen to it, that was the context.

But as i said, it has been a number of years since I heard the message.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Amos

Was he speaking of the Biblical authority of binding and loosing?

And saying that what the Lord has spoken to him was an application of that principle?

If my memory serves me correctly, that was the context.

He said the Lord said to him that what she did not know was that the same hand that loosed her could also bind her.

I think if you will listen to it, that was the context.

But as i said, it has been a number of years since I heard the message.

He did talk about that, but I can not remember if it was while he was trying to justify what he was relaying regarding this woman. To be honest with you, I am not going to listen to the message again to find out.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Rico

I had some time available this early morning, and have listened to this message. The only thing he said that I can honestly agree with is that the apostolic church should not accept members that do not have the Holy Ghost. As for the rest..........................................well , he'd be hard pressed to prove any of it.

He said the Word plainly teaches a woman should not cut her hair. It doesn't take that much in the way of study to see it most certainly does not teach this doctrine plainly. The only two things about hair that are plain to see is that it is a shame for a man to have long hair and a woman should have long hair. The uncut hair doctrine is not supported by scripture.

What more can be said about television than has already been said? Having one or not having one needs to be a matter of conscience and conviction, not something that is legislated from pulpits.

I would like for someone to show me anywhere in the Bible where God took a healing back from someone over them not repenting. He plainly said it's Bible while relating the story about the woman with cancer, so I'd like to see some proof. It may be there somewhere, but I do not remember ever reading of such happening in the Bible.

I would also like for someone familiar with the circumstances in Laurel to give us some background information. This man had some very harsh things to say to that congregation about them heading into apostacy and being reprobate concerning the faith. I seriously doubt that God would send someone to a church to preach that kind of message over women cutting their hair and people not paying their tithes directly to the pastor. There had to have been something else going on there that was not brought up in the message.

Overall I have to say I was not very impressed with this message. I do not know when this message was preached, but my impression of these types of messages is that they come along when pastors begin to realize they are losing the grip they had on people for so many years. Let's face it. For a long time most pastors, be they apostolic or not, had a certain level of control and power over their congregations, almost to the point where it could be said they ruled over them. For the last 35 years or so, as people have become more educated on the Word, that power has slowly been taken away more and more. People have more say as individuals on what they will or won't allow, based on their convictions and understanding of the Word. I don't have a problem with that as long as we realize that along with more freedom comes more accountability to God for where we find ourselves spiritually.

I see what I would term as borderline desperation on the part of those pastors unwilling to turn that power over to the people. Desperation born of fear. Fear that people will fall away, fear that people won't know how to handle too much freedom, fear that God will somehow punish them for not doing everything in their power to keep that power.

I know that pastors have a tough job and I certainly would not want to be one. The glass house alone would be enough to drive me nuts. In my opinion the time has come for pastors to realize that the days of legislating from pulpits are gone. Using fear tactics to get people to comply isn't going to work any more. The Bible says to save some with fear, not everyone. No one is suggesting that you not preach your convictions. All I am saying is preach your convictions but stop trying to make hard and fast rules about those convictions. People are going to know what you believe by what you live anyway.

That's all I have to say. Feel free to tell me how backslid and lost I am. Go ahead and lump me in with the preacher hater's crowd, if you must. I'm used to it by now. I'm just someone who is dumb enough to believe that God knows where I am and He knows where He wants me to be, and He knows how to speak to me when it's time to change anything He's not happy with. He's done it so many times already, and I am sure He will do it again. Yeah, maybe it would be easier if I were to go back to a church where the pastor feels he has to spell everything out to God's people, but God knows that way of doing things will never work with me again.

Rico the foundation of this church did not believe in the necessity of the new birth it was out from under Gurley's influence the pastor's name was Hansford so the initial was was over the new birth and which led into these other areas. When those folks got mad they went right over to the Assembly of God. That spirit never died it laid dormant and now that church today again does not teach the new birth. It is Charismatic church not a loose Pentecostal church but strickly Charismatic. So they were trying to oust the pastor then Elder Lawrence.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Amos

Was he speaking of the Biblical authority of binding and loosing?

And saying that what the Lord has spoken to him was an application of that principle?

If my memory serves me correctly, that was the context.

He said the Lord said to him that what she did not know was that the same hand that loosed her could also bind her.

I think if you will listen to it, that was the context.

But as i said, it has been a number of years since I heard the message.

He was speaking of that principle though I personally do not see it as pertaining to healing. But the crux for me he said God told him. I really do not think the passage has anything to do with healing just me. Didn't say he was infallible just a Man of God. Nevertheless it happened like he said I know folks who can verify the incident.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Rico the foundation of this church did not believe in the necessity of the new birth it was out from under Gurley's influence the pastor's name was Hansford so the initial was was over the new birth and which led into these other areas. When those folks got mad they went right over to the Assembly of God. That spirit never died it laid dormant and now that church today again does not teach the new birth. It is Charismatic church not a loose Pentecostal church but strickly Charismatic. So they were trying to oust the pastor then Elder Lawrence.

Brother, I had a feeling there was more going on than women cutting their and people getting televisionis.