KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

My caveats being:
Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm testing the waters with an upload of a pdf document... and there it is!

John Dearing seems to take a different tack at this issue than the "light" and "lesser light" teachings. The attached PDF document is a scan from the Pentecostal Home Study Course, copyright PPH and etc. This was required reading for all UPC ministers up until the late 1980's. For background, Dearing (1880-1940) was one of the founders of the PCI.

The most important part is:



This is also remarkable for the insight that it gives to us in showing how the first generation of Pentecostals looked at themselves. They really felt that something remarkable had taken place in 1900 - something so dramatic that it effected the way in which God would judge man. They were drawing a line through history here. This is an important consideration for those who hold to the "continuous remnant" theory. The first generation of Pentecostals didn't know of any such "remnant" in their time.

Also, note how he states that those who were not Spirit-filled still had a "perfect standing" with God. That first generation was not just troubled about whether their Trinitarian "brethren" would be saved. They were troubled about their own family members, friends and fellow ministers. The severe judgment that is inherent in the "Three-Stepper" way was even more problematic for our spiritual pioneers.

I think that is why the "Three-Stepper" program had to wait a couple of generations before it could become dominant. This may also be the reason so many "Three-Steppers" are such historical revisionists. They desperately want the Anabaptists and Albigensians to be "Oneness Pentecostals" so that they don't have to send everyone to hell.

Hmmmm...

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm testing the waters with an upload of a pdf document... and there it is!

John Dearing seems to take a different tack at this issue than the "light" and "lesser light" teachings. The attached PDF document is a scan from the Pentecostal Home Study Course, copyright PPH and etc. This was required reading for all UPC ministers up until the late 1980's. For background, Dearing (1880-1940) was one of the founders of the PCI.

The most important part is:



This is also remarkable for the insight that it gives to us in showing how the first generation of Pentecostals looked at themselves. They really felt that something remarkable had taken place in 1900 - something so dramatic that it effected the way in which God would judge man. They were drawing a line through history here. This is an important consideration for those who hold to the "continuous remnant" theory. The first generation of Pentecostals didn't know of any such "remnant" in their time.

Also, note how he states that those who were not Spirit-filled still had a "perfect standing" with God. That first generation was not just troubled about whether their Trinitarian "brethren" would be saved. They were troubled about their own family members, friends and fellow ministers. The severe judgment that is inherent in the "Three-Stepper" way was even more problematic for our spiritual pioneers.

I think that is why the "Three-Stepper" program had to wait a couple of generations before it could become dominant. This may also be the reason so many "Three-Steppers" are such historical revisionists. They desperately want the Anabaptists and Albigensians to be "Oneness Pentecostals" so that they don't have to send everyone to hell.

Thank You for sharing this remarkable quote, could you please tell me how I could get a copy of it.

Thanks

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

Joel Osteen would be proud ... Newman .... Jesus is indeed our plan of salvation ... we all agree that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Thank You for sharing this remarkable quote, could you please tell me how I could get a copy of it.

Thanks

There is a link to download the PDF file within my post on Page 3 of this thread. Click on the link and then select to Save...

The Study Series that I have is out of print. However the PPH does offer a "250 Lesson" study series credited to Sister Rohn. I believe that this is the same book, however I'm waiting until Christmas before I spend anything just to see.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Thad

I know for a fact that Clyde taught the light doctrine. I grew up in this neck of the woods- my father knew him well

It's not foolish supposition at all

May I offer my first hand knowledge on the subject. Thad is exactly right and Thad's Dad knew also. [As a child I was afraid of Thad's Dad. Thought he looked and sounded like a Mafia Don! Sorry Thad! LOL]
Outside of KH and some of his family I knew CJ Haney as well as anybody. Bar none! I sat as a very young boy in his church. I later was a student in his College. I preached for him. I deer hunted with him. The last church he dedicated just before he was killed was the one I pastored. I would not put any words in his mouth since he's not here to reply but he did believe and teach in the "Friends of the Bridegroom" doctrine. And to my knowledge believed it at his death. [maybe even more so] Now if this disappoints some of you I'm sorry but there walked no finer man than CJ Haney! This doesn't mean that he didn't preach Acts 2:38. His brother-in-law David Gray had some beliefs that might surprise you also and yet the intelligence and spiritual wisdom of Bro. Gray are unparalleled in UPCI history.
Part of the problem here is that there has been a re-writing of history and now the truth, when told, is just not palatable for some. As for KH I wouldn't put words in his mouth either. He's of age let him speak for himself but I know that he had great love and respect for his father. KH preaches Acts 2:38! Peace my friends I'm only here to help.
Raven

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Raven

May I offer my first hand knowledge on the subject. Thad is exactly right and Thad's Dad knew also. [As a child I was afraid of Thad's Dad. Thought he looked and sounded like a Mafia Don! Sorry Thad! LOL]
Outside of KH and some of his family I knew CJ Haney as well as anybody. Bar none! I sat as a very young boy in his church. I later was a student in his College. I preached for him. I deer hunted with him. The last church he dedicated just before he was killed was the one I pastored. I would not put any words in his mouth since he's not here to reply but he did believe and teach in the "Friends of the Bridegroom" doctrine. And to my knowledge believed it at his death. [maybe even more so] Now if this disappoints some of you I'm sorry but there walked no finer man than CJ Haney! This doesn't mean that he didn't preach Acts 2:38. His brother-in-law David Gray had some beliefs that might surprise you also and yet the intelligence and spiritual wisdom of Bro. Gray are unparalleled in UPCI history.
Part of the problem here is that there has been a re-writing of history and now the truth, when told, is just not palatable for some. As for KH I wouldn't put words in his mouth either. He's of age let him speak for himself but I know that he had great love and respect for his father. KH preaches Acts 2:38! Peace my friends I'm only here to help.
Raven

Truth is a beautiful thing.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Raven

May I offer my first hand knowledge on the subject. Thad is exactly right and Thad's Dad knew also. [As a child I was afraid of Thad's Dad. Thought he looked and sounded like a Mafia Don! Sorry Thad! LOL]
Outside of KH and some of his family I knew CJ Haney as well as anybody. Bar none! I sat as a very young boy in his church. I later was a student in his College. I preached for him. I deer hunted with him. The last church he dedicated just before he was killed was the one I pastored. I would not put any words in his mouth since he's not here to reply but he did believe and teach in the "Friends of the Bridegroom" doctrine. And to my knowledge believed it at his death. [maybe even more so] Now if this disappoints some of you I'm sorry but there walked no finer man than CJ Haney! This doesn't mean that he didn't preach Acts 2:38. His brother-in-law David Gray had some beliefs that might surprise you also and yet the intelligence and spiritual wisdom of Bro. Gray are unparalleled in UPCI history.
Part of the problem here is that there has been a re-writing of history and now the truth, when told, is just not palatable for some. As for KH I wouldn't put words in his mouth either. He's of age let him speak for himself but I know that he had great love and respect for his father. KH preaches Acts 2:38! Peace my friends I'm only here to help.
Raven

Thank you old friend for your wisdom and insight.

[SDG]

The facts keep stacking up ... for the all the talk and rhetoric that modern day Ultracons spew about Trinitarians being lost and how they monopolize Oneness heritage .... when one looks at the Haneys, Urshans, Haywoods, Goss and a multitude of the pioneers .... they have little in common in regards to attitude and approach.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Matt ... Kudos for stirring it up!!!

I agree w/ you .... it is a contradiction .... you can't have it both ways ... either it is or isn't the plan of salvation.

I almost stated "(ain't you proud of me Daniel)" in my original post.

HAHA!!!