KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

This was an "old timer" and seems he did not have any problem teaching full BIBLICAL Salvation.

John Dearing never taught that all other Christians were lost. All of his writings were removed from the Pentecostal Home Study Course because of his "openess."

Because someone teaches Acts 2:38, it doesn't necessarily follow that they sent everyone else to hell. In fact, as I have stated before, the exclusivism that you find among Apostolics today is a novelty. "Old timers" like John Dearing were gracious and generous Christians who had latched onto a marvelous truth.

The attached file is just one page of his that has been removed by the PPH. Here he provides his own answer to the question: "What are you going to do with the many faithful people who have lived for God and yet never experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost as in Acts 2:4?"

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by pelathais

John Dearing never taught that all other Christians were lost. All of his writings were removed from the Pentecostal Home Study Course because of his "openess."

Because someone teaches Acts 2:38, it doesn't necessarily follow that they sent everyone else to hell. In fact, as I have stated before, the exclusivism that you find among Apostolics today is a novelty. "Old timers" like John Dearing were gracious and generous Christians who had latched onto a marvelous truth.

The attached file is just one page of his that has been removed by the PPH.

This same John Dearing is the Brother Dearing the writer alludes to. You blather on and on that this was removed in 1992, I have further question-
Do you believe water baptism is essential at all? Do you believe oneness or not? They do go hand in hand. I still say those who worship more that one god are idolators and God will reject them.

I will accept not all Trinatarians are in this group. Some of them don't know what they believe. Apparently neither do many of our members.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that if one refuses to be water baptized in Jesus name there's an obedience issue that might need to be addressed through bible study or admonition. I think that it's possible that those who ultimately refuse to be water baptized in Jesus name may be classified as being backsliden or in disobedience. While water baptism in Jesus name may not be an absolute requirement for salvation according to some Greek interpretations of Acts 2:38 it is a command that calls for obedience. Therefore one can conceivably repent, be forgiven, be filled with the Holy Ghost, BUT refuse to be baptized in Jesus name and be lost on the basis of disobedience. Baptism is at the very least the first step of obedience (Mark 16:16).

Worthy to quote again. I am off to the malls.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

This same John Dearing is the Brother Dearing the writer alludes to. You blather on and on that this was removed in 1992,

Well, duh! I don't know the exact year that it was removed, but yes, I will continue to "blather." He was a good man and a tremendous influence upon all of our lives. He should be remembered.

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

I have further question-
Do you believe water baptism is essential at all? Do you believe oneness or not? They do go hand in hand. I still say those who worship more that one god are idolators and God will reject them.

I will accept not all Trinatarians are in this group. Some of them don't know what they believe. Apparently neither do many of our members.



Worthy to quote again. I am off to the malls.

And thus you prove to us your maddness. Anyone shopping or even visiting a mall on a weekend this close to Christmas demonstrates such a severe lack of good judgment that their discernment in other areas is bound to be just as skewed.

Furthermore, I will suggest that your avatar and "humbug" attitude is all a sham! You profess disdain for the season and yet you choose to congregate and associate yourself with the most fanatic of the yule tide adherents.

I assert that you can tell a man's doctrine by the company that he chooses to keep. And more, that if such a man sets out to overcome enormous obstacles in order to fellowship with others, then the moods and observances of those he seeks are his own as well!

So, "Good Christmas!" to you, sir. Nay, not only "Good" but a "Merry Christmas!" to you as well!

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Well, duh! I don't know the exact year that it was removed, but yes, I will continue to "blather." He was a good man and a tremendous influence upon all of our lives. He should be remembered.

And thus you prove to us your maddness. Anyone shopping or even visiting a mall on a weekend this close to Christmas demonstrates such a severe lack of good judgment that their discernment in other areas is bound to be just as skewed.

Furthermore, I will suggest that your avatar and "humbug" attitude is all a sham! You profess disdain for the season and yet you choose to congregate and associate yourself with the most fanatic of the yule tide adherents.

I assert that you can tell a man's doctrine by the company that he chooses to keep. And more, that if such a man sets out to overcome enormous obstacles in order to fellowship with others, then the moods and observances of those he seeks are his own as well!

So, "Good Christmas!" to you, sir. Nay, not only "Good" but a "Merry Christmas!" to you as well!

Ditto and AMEN!!!

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

To some you would do away with the experience of those in Act 8 and 10 who were filled prior to baptism.



Amazing this is so simple, clearly defined and yet some here scoff at this.

"Either you believe it or reject it"
-Josh McDowell

(fitting here as well as Evidence That Demands A Verdict)

You quote a trinitarian to support your rant??? This is indicative of double talk. Let's read their books, preach their messages, watch their tv shows, and tell everybody they're not saved. PPPPLLLEEEEAAASSSEEE!!!!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by staysharp

You quote a trinitarian to support your rant??? This is indicative of double talk. Let's read their books, preach their messages, watch their tv shows, and tell everybody they're not saved. PPPPLLLEEEEAAASSSEEE!!!!

I have never watched their shows or preached their messages.

I rarely read their books, and when I do, I use wisdom from above to filter out the nuggets of truth from the error that so often pervades big chunks of what they put out.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and even a blind hog will find an acorn now and then.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Unity and simplicity of life. We're a long ways away from that today, aren't we?!

Having worked in a large Christian bookstore over the past few years, I've had the opportunity to meet and talk with many pastors and ministry leaders in the "Christian" community who are just perplexed at how to deal with church and pastoring anymore. So many are discouraged and feel that everything has become so complicated. So many are leaving the ministry. So many churches are closing up and splitting! It's like an epidemic taking place!!

Maybe it's partly because we've allowed it to become complicated because we've bought into what people think we need in order to do church anymore and to stay "current" and relate to the Xers and subsequent generations. Maybe it actually IS necessary in order to relate to a younger generation. Is it?

But it doesn't seem to have been effective for the most part when you consider the lack of growth in most churches and the fact that so many people IN the church are dissatisfied and unhappy and comparing things to the way it "used to be" and nothing can measure up.

So many pastors and ministry leaders are discouraged, disillusioned and packing it in and dropping out of ministry. They feel it's just not worth the trouble or the hassle and a sacrificial lifestyle (which really should be part and parcel of living a Christian life -- "take up thy "cross" and folow Me" were the words of Jesus after all) is not what most are willing to live.

I guess that for me whatever sacrifices have to be made, whatever adjustments have to be made to keep up can be justified as long as we're not compromising truth, and as long as we're reaching people with the Gospel and seeing lives transformed. Because that ........ is the bottom line and is our mandate.

Except that we also have a responsibility to care in the best way/s possible for the saints and the "aints" too sitting in churches needing the guidance and care of a shepherd.

Wonderful post!

The church needs to shape up! LoL I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
Generation Y will not put up with "...because I said so..." and "...this is the way we've always done it..."

If you need more clarity on that, just let me know.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Unity and simplicity of life. We're a long ways away from that today, aren't we?!

Having worked in a large Christian bookstore over the past few years, I've had the opportunity to meet and talk with many pastors and ministry leaders in the "Christian" community who are just perplexed at how to deal with church and pastoring anymore. So many are discouraged and feel that everything has become so complicated. So many are leaving the ministry. So many churches are closing up and splitting! It's like an epidemic taking place!!

Maybe it's partly because we've allowed it to become complicated because we've bought into what people think we need in order to do church anymore and to stay "current" and relate to the Xers and subsequent generations. Maybe it actually IS necessary in order to relate to a younger generation. Is it?

But it doesn't seem to have been effective for the most part when you consider the lack of growth in most churches and the fact that so many people IN the church are dissatisfied and unhappy and comparing things to the way it "used to be" and nothing can measure up.

So many pastors and ministry leaders are discouraged, disillusioned and packing it in and dropping out of ministry. They feel it's just not worth the trouble or the hassle and a sacrificial lifestyle (which really should be part and parcel of living a Christian life -- "take up thy "cross" and follow Me" were the words of Jesus after all) is not what most are willing to live.

I guess that for me whatever sacrifices have to be made, whatever adjustments have to be made to keep up can be justified as long as we're not compromising truth, and as long as we're reaching people with the Gospel and seeing lives transformed. Because that ........ is the bottom line and is our mandate.

Except that we also have a responsibility to care in the best way/s possible for the saints and the "aints" too sitting in churches needing the guidance and care of a shepherd.

Just saw this...great post, sis...

The words to an old song come to mind...

I walked one day along a country road,
And there a stranger journeyed, too,
Bent low beneath the burden of His load:
It was a cross, a cross I knew.

“Take up thy cross and follow Me,”
I hear the blessed Savior call;
How can I make a lesser sacrifice,
When Jesus gave His all?

I cried, “Lord Jesus,” and He spoke my name;
I saw His hands all bruised and torn;
I stooped to kiss away the marks of shame,
The shame for me that He had borne.

“Oh, let me bear Thy cross, dear Lord,” I cried,
And, lo, a cross for me appeared,
The one, forgotten, I had cast aside,
The one, so long, that I had feared.

My cross I’ll carry till the crown appears—
The way I journey soon will end—
Where God Himself shall wipe away all tears,
And friend hold fellowship with friend.

-Alfred H. Ackley, 1922

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Barb

Just saw this...great post, sis...

The words to an old song come to mind...

I walked one day along a country road,
And there a stranger journeyed, too,
Bent low beneath the burden of His load:
It was a cross, a cross I knew.

“Take up thy cross and follow Me,”
I hear the blessed Savior call;
How can I make a lesser sacrifice,
When Jesus gave His all?

I cried, “Lord Jesus,” and He spoke my name;
I saw His hands all bruised and torn;
I stooped to kiss away the marks of shame,
The shame for me that He had borne.

“Oh, let me bear Thy cross, dear Lord,” I cried,
And, lo, a cross for me appeared,
The one, forgotten, I had cast aside,
The one, so long, that I had feared.

My cross I’ll carry till the crown appears—
The way I journey soon will end—
Where God Himself shall wipe away all tears,
And friend hold fellowship with friend.

-Alfred H. Ackley, 1922

Barb,

When I was a youngster, I used to sing that song in a trio with my mother and my Aunt Niece (the one that Felicity reminds me of).

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

I have noted that some who have left the church and now are part of what others consider Charismatic churches gravitate to the PCI side. This makes Light Doctrine easier to accept to some, for apparently they themselves no longer believe the message.

Or never did.

What message? O let me guess. It's the one that says, take all three steps immediately or you are going to hell whether you see the light of it ot NOT.

Really? There is a more of a christian and charitable way to present the gospel, like..."Brother, I am thankful that God has saved you from a life of sin, washed you in His blood, but there are better things for you that I would like to share."

The light is progressive in every life as the sun in its daily trek. The bible speaks of the day dawn. It speaks of the Day Star that will arise. Whatever state of light that each of us find ourselves in, only a fool will profess to have all the light that God is willing to share. It is pride to look down on another brother/sister having less light than ourselves.

Actually, I rather doubt that many ardent three steppers have as much light as they claim being only obedient to a religious three step rule rather than obedient to a leading light. Just my considered opinion.