Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

[Nina]

If we look at the merger as a legal contract You could say that it has been broken.

The only thing that has changed is that they are willing to contend now.

The mindsets (yokes (?) concerning salvation (when it occurs) have not changed.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Nina

If we look at the merger as a legal contract You could say that it has been broken.

The only thing that has changed is that they are willing to contend now.

The mindsets (yokes (?) concerning salvation (when it occurs) have not changed.

This is true, I didn't even know they exist until 2001-that is when we lived up north and some of the folks there were PCI.

I have a feeling when those men merged they really planned and promised one another, besides just on paper that they would stay unified.

But those men have passed along with it the sincerity and loyalty to one another-how do you pass that on to the next generation if they never even heard of PCI and what they believe? Anyway it's a rhetorical question.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Thanks for that. I'm still not clear, but the question remains...does the Bible refer to baptism as being 'born again'? That has been my question which is still unanswered. I'm trying to figure this out.

To answer your question...

Do you believe that Acts 2:37-40 was about sinners who heard Peter's preaching and being convicted of their sins and realizing they need to do something but not knowing WHAT and asking Peter and the rest of the apostles what they should do and Peter telling them what they must do to be saved?

If so, then can you see that Acts 2:38 contains 2 baptisms - one by water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins - and the other baptism by the Holy Ghost talked about in Luke 24:47-49 and Acts 1:4-5?

If so, then you have the answer to your question.

To explain it a little further...

The Great Commission was all about Jesus sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel and tell people HOW to be saved.

Luke's version of the great commission in Luke 24:47-49 all include repentance and remission of sins in his name and the Holy Ghost - comparing this to Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 we see that remission or washing away of sins comes from being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ

John's version of the great commission in John 20:21-23 includes remission of sins and the Holy Ghost

Mark's version of the great commission in Mark 16:15-18 speaks of baptism and tongues (which comes with receiving the baptism of the HOly Ghost) and other things

Matthew's version in Matt 28:19 only contains baptism.

Now Acts 1:8 identifies the 3 major categories of people that Jesus said they would be witnesses to - the Jews, the Samaritans, and the Gentiles. When we look at the conversion of the Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles we see that they all of this in common - Christ was preached to them and they were all baptized in the name of Jesus and rec'd the Holy Ghost - baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit.

In fact being born AGAIN is similar to natural birth in that natural birth involves water and breathing our first breath of life - and being born AGAIN involves water baptism and Spirit (pneuma - breath) baptism - God foreshowing this by breathing on them.

One more thought...

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Notice WASH away our sins at baptism and the following scripture...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Speaking of water baptism as being buried into his death and rising to walk in newness of life - kinda sounds like regeneration

So...water baptism and washing and regeneration...

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Saved us - how? - by washing of regeneration - water baptism AND the Holy Ghost - Spirit baptism.

I've blabbed enough.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

[mizpeh]

I was reading an article written by a Trinitarian who strongly disagrees with a fellow Trinitarian regarding whether the Son of God was eternally the Son or if God became the Son at the incarnation. What I found interesting and reminded me of this thread was the author of the article kept anonymous the name of a seminary professor who held to the unorthodox doctrine of an incarnational Sonship. He didn't reveal the name of this other man, his Christian brother, unlike CW in the email to KH which made its way into the hands of other ministers. Here's what the author of the article wrote that impressed me:

Dr. John MacArthur may be the best known proponent of the "Sonship by incarnation" position, but he by no means is alone in holding this view. Many others do as well, including one professor from a prominent Seminary who has carried this teaching to a dangerous extreme. In a letter to this author he stated, "I know that hypotheses are problematic, but I have personally hypothesized that when the divine decision was made with regard to the incarnation, any of the three members of the Trinity could have accepted the various roles." [I have this letter in my files. My purpose in sharing this is to set forth a position that is being held today. The identity of the professor who wrote these words is not necessary or needful to reveal. Our concern in this booklet is to defend the doctrine of eternal Sonship against current denials, not to attack personalities. Some names have been cited in this chapter, but this is because these individuals have made their position known in their published and public writings.] This means that the Father could have been the Son, the Son could have been the Spirit, the Spirit could have been the Father, etc. This is dangerous doctrine, but, after all, if "Sonship" and "Fatherhood" are merely roles that were assumed, why could they not have been interchangeable? http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...ip/sonsh05.htm

This dispute between these Trinitarians was about doctrine (a MAJOR doctrine), the same thing CW is having with MJ, but notice the respect given to the unnamed professor. What a difference!!!!

I pray CW and MJ can remain loving brethren of the same body of Christ and that the devil will not use that email to sow discord among the brethren.

[Sister Alvear]

sadly in Pentesoct there is little respect and no ethics as a whole. Sorry for my opinion but it is the truth.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

sadly in Pentesoct there is little respect and no ethics as a whole. Sorry for my opinion but it is the truth.

Dear Sister,

I am very sorry that your experiences have been so negative.

I have been treated very well by many in Pentecost.

Not everybody is disrespectful and unethical.

[Sister Alvear]

I am sorry too. You are right not everybody.

[Sister Alvear]

I think it is disrepectful to use names especially when we call each other brother and sister.

[Steve Epley]

I have NOT called men of the PCI mindset unbelievers if they have been born again of water & the Spirit they are my brethren, however their wrong concept of the new birth produced a generation that went even farther away from truth. To mix the two concepts may have been admirable idea and the intentions may have been noble but as the late Ben Pemberton said about the merger "this is not a marriage made in Heaven." It could not exist forever with these two postions so far apart. This is NOT sleeves or what to use for communion or the different views on the coming of the Lord but salvation. Look at the discussions on this forumand how heated they get. Can you see all of us holding license with the same group at a 'battleship meeting?'

[TalkLady]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

sadly in Pentesoct there is little respect and no ethics as a whole. Sorry for my opinion but it is the truth.

You sure hit the nail on the head there, Sis.....For many I know. - Not all, but many.