Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I think you're wrong. No one said anything about moral relevancy. I'm sure these pastors uphold morals and ethics. What is being discussed (and feared) is an invasion of relevant teaching/music/apparel/etc. into the ranks of an organization that has prided itself on separation from the world.

Originally Posted by Jeanie

In a nut shell! Exactly!

Ok, Maybe I missed the whole point. If it is just about an "invasion" and "seperation" from the world then that is an internal matter for the leaders of that denom. to try to manage.

Originally Posted by HappyTown

More power to these young minister! What used to be is no longer working, the young minister realized this, people are no longer fooled into believe standards are salvation, the fear factor no longer has the power it once held. The internet has open many eyes to the real truth on such matters as stated above, more so then T.V ever would!

God is opening the doors for Apostolic Pastors to be preaching on TV and winning many to the Lord.

[HappyTown]

Originally Posted by Oneness Man

God is opening the doors for Apostolic Pastors to be preaching on TV and winning many to the Lord.

That's way cool!

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Does anyone know if this letter was sent out to all licensed UPC ministers?

To be fair to Bro Wright, I am sure when he wrote the letter, if he did, he didnt know it would be posted on AFF.


I personaly don't have a problem with it being posted, there is a lot there I think is important to talk about.

I questioned this also. How is the letter public? If I were Haney in a business situtation and someone under me made such a letter public he would be fired! In a church government setting I would give him one chance and if he ever did it again he would not be a "superintendant" for me......

Originally Posted by HappyTown

That's way cool!

Yes, it sure is. It's time that Apostolics reach the lost that wouldn't step in a church building and start reaching them through the TV, but I think that it has been going on before the resolution was passed though.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by U376977

I questioned this also. How is the letter public? If I were Haney in a business situtation and someone under me made such a letter public he would be fired! In a church government setting I would give him one chance and if he ever did it again he would not be a "superintendant" for me......

The problem is, this is not a corporate style government, neither do the District Supts "work" for or at the bidding of the Gen. Supt. The Dist. Supts serve at the bidding of the ministers of the District. They cannot be removed for anything but unethical or "chargeable" offenses according to the manual.

[Withdrawn]

This concerns me and, I believe, it grieves the heart of God Himself.

I'm not left-wing and I'm not UC. I'm just a sinner, saved by grace, whom God revealed His plan and purpose to. I've repented (and live repentant), I've taken His name in baptism for the remission of my sins, and He has filled me with His Spirit and it has CHANGED MY LIFE!

Let's face it, folks! WE HAVE A WORLD TO REACH!!! Sticking to old traditions and rules that are not biblical just because that's what we've always believed will NOT get it done. Becoming just like the world in the way they think and talk will NOT get it done. But we DO need to be relevant.

We have a policy at our "church." (I put "church" in quotes because the church is much more inclusive than just our little congregation in our corner of the world.) That policy says (1) anyone is welcome - no matter their mental condition (high/intoxicated or straight), no matter how they are dressed, no matter how they smell, whether or not they've combed their hair; (2) you will feel the LOVE OF GOD FROM GOD'S PEOPLE because we are His heart (as His body); (3) you do not need a college degree to understand what is preached or taught; (4) it's God's job to make the change in you - it's not our job to say "you must do this, and look like this, and give up this before God will save your wicked soul."

With all due respect to the many who have gone before, I believe we have put too much emphasis on some things, but have ignored the weightier matters. The world will not be saved if they don't feel that we love them or can relate to where they are. And they won't be saved if they don't see that we are any different than they are. But it's not about what we wear when we're preaching or teaching. It's not about whether or not our women are wearing earrings. It's about whether or not they feel the love of Christ coming from us.

We need to get OUT of the old frame of mind where we're trying to get people to come to church. We need to quit "going to church" ourselves. We need to BE THE CHURCH and we're not going to do that until we quit all of the grumbling and foolishness about "did you see what so and so was wearing?" or "can you believe the things that pastor is allowing?" and so on. If we are right with God, He will call the shots and speak to our hearts about what manner we will use to present Him to the world. Our focus is on getting people to come to a building, sit on a bench and let us preach to them. We need to go to where they are and minister to their needs before they'll even think about listening to us.

I will be praying for that pastor in Delaware. And I'll be praying for Bro. Wright and Bro. Anderson. Whether we admit it or not, we're all in this together. Our message MUST be relevant for people to care. Doctrine matters! Salvation is NOT complete at repentance - you need to obey Acts 2.38. But saying that everyone has to dress, look and think just like you or use the same music is foolishness. And that causes confusion and division that will drive people AWAY FROM US in droves. Traditions of man say that a preacher must be dressed in a suit. Traditions of man say that today's worship music is too much like the world.

I'm praying about starting a thread about worldliness, and just may do that later today or this weekend. I agree that there are too many worldly influences in the church. But it's not our dress code. It's everything else that competes for our attention and affection. Our focus is in the wrong place. We hold a prayer meeting and a handful of faithful might show up if it's convenient. But announce a fish fry or spaghetti supper, people will clear their calendars and you won't have room to seat everyone that shows up.

The world and its attractions and activities - even those that aren't necessarily evil in themselves - are distractions that chip away at our commitment. The reason we're not seeing revival is not because we have too many standards. And the reason we're not seeing revival is not because we aren't strict enough with our standards. It's because we're not committed like we should be. God is calling us to give ALL - to take up our cross of self-sacrifice and follow HIM. If we have a revelation of the cross and are denying self to follow Him, all this foolish bickering about standards and worrying about what the other guy is doing goes away. Then all we care about is doing the work that God has called us to. God didn't call me to reach the people of Newark, DE. He didn't call me to reach the people of Stockton, CA. He called me to reach the people of Akron, OH. And if I'm lead by God to use a different strategy than what you are using that's not your concern.

Sorry for the long post. I just feel passionate about this. We spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME arguing back and forth, gossipping and accusing each other. If we get back to the basics of what we're supposed to be doing, we don't have time for anything else.

God Bless!
~ Jim

[Light]

Originally Posted by Minister_WD

Bro. Haney,


Greetings in Jesus Name! I am writing to express to you my very great
concern about the "relevancy movement" in the church world and the impact
that it is having on the young ministers of our movement. Let me state that
while I am concerned about the Tulsa thing. Its potential impact upon our
movement is minimal compared to the impact that the relevancy movement is
having upon our next generation of preachers. The majority of those
involved with Tulsa are older ministers whose potential long term impact is
minimal. But, while we are so concerned about them and their exodus, while
our attention is focused on them, the adversary is deceiving a significant
portion of our younger generation who are our future.


Let me share some things which I have discovered in just a small amount of
time while doing some research and checking:First, a significant portion of these young men among us are questioning"when the blood is applied." The result of their "searching" is that they have concluded that it is applied at repentance, producing the conclusion that Water Baptism and Receiving the Holy Ghost is NOT necessary for salvation. They have concluded that all "holiness" is Phariseeism - that all of our standards are traditions of men, traditions of an older, out of date generation. This thinking is already affecting young men from Every area of our nation. I have several in my district that at leaning this direction. I have talked to several men from different areas of the country and it is happening to men they know as well.
Second, this group wants to reach the world through "relevancy" or
"relating" to the culture of this generation. A man who preached this past
General Conference uses people in ministry in his church who have NOT been
baptized in Jesus name and who have NOT received the Holy Ghost. He also
uses people in positions which represent his church to the public with NO
holiness standards at all. You can see for yourself atwww.thepointonline.tv and www.yourjourney.tv While I am not intending to single him out specifically, he is a very visible representative of the direction that many of our young men are going. Using him gave all of them a feeling of vindication and accreditation. There are many "buzz-words" associated with this new version of the manifestation of an old deceiving spirit. They think we older guys don't know the language, so therefore when they preach they say things that they expect that we will understand one way, while those "in the know" understand that they are saying something very different to them.

The relevancy movement is changing "church" to appeal to this generation
(their specific target generation is the 20-29 year olds). While I have a
great desire to see this generation reached also, I do not think that we
have to preach in tee shirts and blue jeans to reach them. Much of what so
disturbed the General Presbyters that they expressed about the Youth
Convention at last year's General Conference is not an isolated event, nor
just a trend. It is a movement - the relevancy movement. (Googleing
"relevancy" will shock you.) (By the way, the name "The Journey" is the
most "up-to-date" name for churches that are a part of the relevancy
movement - again, Google - "the journey church" and see for yourself.)
Bro. Haney I know that you are aware of my desire for progress. I have no
loyalty to religious traditions. I deeply desire to eliminate everything
from our doctrine and practices that are not completely founded upon the
Word of God. Therefore, I hope that you will understand and give some
credence to the concern that I have, since I have never been one for
maintaining the status quo. This email is written by someone who does
believe that change is positive. I am for changing the things which can and
should be changed. However, I am not for changing our Apostolic message,
only our un-Scriptural, non-Apostolic, ineffective methods.


I am deeply troubled in my spirit by these things and felt the need to
express them to you. I do not know if there would be anytime in the agenda
at the Board meeting to discuss this at all, but I pray that there is.
Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy communication.
I pray that the Lord is blessing and keeping you. I look forward to seeing
you in a few weeks.

Chester Wright

Maryland-DC District Superintendent

Chester is writing his letter to the wrong person. Haney will do nothing because he believes the light doctrine. He preaches acts 2:38 all the while believing one is saved if they walk in all the light that they have. In other words a catholic person who live according to every thing they have been taught and they never see Jesus name baptism or the need for the Holy Ghost they will be saved. They walked in all the light that was shown to them.

[deltaguitar]

What is happening is that people are getting back to Jesus! There is a huge movement and God is bringing people back to the Cross. Yes, there are some misguided souls who are trying to be "relevant" at the expense of the message but I really doubt there are many pastors who are headed in the wrong direction that Bro. Wright suggest.

These guys just want power and control over everything and THEY are becoming so irrelevant that they are fighting back.

Our generation is hungry for the word, truth, and relationship. I meet young people everyday who are searching for Jesus and a relationship with everything that they have. They are starting to realize that many things that they were taught growing up were not the truth but were actually a hindrance to true faith.

If these men really cared about the movement they would go find out what these young men are doing and get right along side them and labor with them. Try to understand them and learn why these young men think the way they do.

[Jack Shephard]

Relevant? The gospel is the most relevant thing going. The packaging is old and should be up to date. If some of you all on here do not believe that the way the pastor dresses does not influence the membership and size of a church, you are wrong. I can say this cause I have seen it first hand here. I live in the eastern part of the Phoenix Metro Valley. There is a church in the West Valley that the pastor is know as the 'blue jean preacher.' There was a rather large write up about him and the church a few years ago in the AZ Republic, the state newspaper. The article not only talked about the man and the style in which he preached but also the style in which he dresses.

Many people were interviewed for the article and most of them said they first attended the church due to the fact the preacher was more modern and wore jeans and a nice shirt. This church is over 2000 people in attendance.

My point is that the message of the Gospel is so relevant that everyone needs it. The way the we market it sometimes is not relevant. Coke and Pepsi would not sell their sodas today with the same marketing tools and design as they did in the 70's and 80's. They up date the methods of distribution and marketing without changing or risking the integrity of the product. We must do the same today, IMO. With so many things being thrown at us both good and bad it is paramount that we the Church of the Living God be at the forefront of marketing our product. We are not 'selling' (in the negative sense)our product or our brand of the way we see it, but we are trying to get others to buy into it, aren't we? If so then at least get even with the times and make it look sooooooo good that people can not help but want it!