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  #321  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:18 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

Book 2 of Church History by Eusebius

3. The manner of James' death has been already indicated by the above-quoted words of Clement, who records that he was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple, and was beaten to death with a club. But Hegesippus, who lived immediately after the apostles, gives the most accurate account in the fifth book of his Memoirs. He writes as follows:

4. James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles. He has been called the Just by all from the time of our Saviour to the present day; for there were many that bore the name of James.

5. He was holy from his mother's womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. No razor came upon his head; he did not anoint himself with oil, and he did not use the bath.

6. He alone was permitted to enter into the holy place; for he wore not woolen but linen garments. And he was in the habit of entering alone into the temple, and was frequently found upon his knees begging forgiveness for the people, so that his knees became hard like those of a camel, in consequence of his constantly bending them in his worship of God, and asking forgiveness for the people.

7. Because of his exceeding great justice he was called the Just, and Oblias, which signifies in Greek, 'Bulwark of the people' and 'Justice,' in accordance with what the prophets declare concerning him.

8. Now some of the seven sects, which existed among the people and which have been mentioned by me in the Memoirs, asked him, 'What is the gate of Jesus?' and he replied that he was the Saviour.

9. On account of these words some believed that Jesus is the Christ. But the sects mentioned above did not believe either in a resurrection or in one's coming to give to every man according to his works. But as many as believed did so on account of James.

10. Therefore when many even of the rulers believed, there was a commotion among the Jews and Scribes and Pharisees, who said that there was danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ. Coming therefore in a body to James they said, 'We entreat you, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat you to persuade all that have come to the feast of the Passover concerning Jesus; for we all have confidence in you. For we bear you witness, as do all the people, that you are just, and do not respect persons. Matthew 22:16

11. Therefore, persuade the multitude not to be led astray concerning Jesus. For the whole people, and all of us also, have confidence in you. Stand therefore upon the pinnacle of the temple, that from that high position you may be clearly seen, and that your words may be readily heard by all the people. For all the tribes, with the Gentiles also, are come together on account of the Passover.'

12. The aforesaid Scribes and Pharisees therefore placed James upon the pinnacle of the temple, and cried out to him and said: 'You just one, in whom we ought all to have confidence, forasmuch as the people are led astray after Jesus, the crucified one, declare to us, what is the gate of Jesus.'

13. And he answered with a loud voice, 'Why do you ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man? He himself sits in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is about to come upon the clouds of heaven.'

14. And when many were fully convinced and gloried in the testimony of James, and said, 'Hosanna to the Son of David,' these same Scribes and Pharisees said again to one another, 'We have done badly in supplying such testimony to Jesus. But let us go up and throw him down, in order that they may be afraid to believe him.'

15. And they cried out, saying, 'Oh! oh! the just man is also in error.' And they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah, 'Let us take away the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings.'

16. So they went up and threw down the just man, and said to each other, 'Let us stone James the Just.' And they began to stone him, for he was not killed by the fall; but he turned and knelt down and said, 'I entreat you, Lord God our Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.' Luke 23:34

17. And while they were thus stoning him one of the priests of the sons of Rechab, the son of the Rechabites, who are mentioned by Jeremiah the prophet, cried out, saying, 'Stop. What are you doing? The just one prays for you.'

18. And one of them, who was a fuller, took the club with which he beat out clothes and struck the just man on the head. And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ. And immediately Vespasian besieged them.

19. These things are related at length by Hegesippus, who is in agreement with Clement. James was so admirable a man and so celebrated among all for his justice, that the more sensible even of the Jews were of the opinion that this was the cause of the siege of Jerusalem, which happened to them immediately after his martyrdom for no other reason than their daring act against him.
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  #322  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:21 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

I'll take Eusebius's word on this.

He is simply requoting earlier writers.
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  #323  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:21 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

literacy for the win
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  #324  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:23 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos View Post
Well, I guess it's time to move on.

The pack has showed up.
Come back and bring your posse with you.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #325  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
Amos Amos is offline
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

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Originally Posted by erikwebster View Post
literacy for the win
I guess if'n I'd read some of them there books, I might be smart enough to talk to a real, sure enough scholar like you.

Any time you think a historical reference blows the Scripture out of the water, you prove that you have been educated beyond your intelligence.

You debate Scripture with Scripture, not Clement and Eusebius.
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"Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:

And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."


--Amos 7:14-15
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  #326  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Amos Amos is offline
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Come back and bring your posse with you.

Not much interest.

I have been a little bored today and came back around to see how things were perking.

I'm finding out.

A conservative gets gang tackled if he dares post, and the mockers and smart alecks show up in force.
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"Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:

And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."


--Amos 7:14-15
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  #327  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:29 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

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Originally Posted by Amos View Post
I guess if'n I'd read some of them there books, I might be smart enough to talk to a real, sure enough scholar like you.

Any time you think a historical reference blows the Scripture out of the water, you prove that you have been educated beyond your intelligence.

You debate Scripture with Scripture, not Clement and Eusebius.
perchance the truth
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  #328  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:30 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos View Post
Not much interest.

I have been a little bored today and came back around to see how things were perking.

I'm finding out.

A conservative gets gang tackled if he dares post, and the mockers and smart alecks show up in force.

I may be a bit mocking, but mostly i just want you to back up what you say.
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  #329  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:31 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

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Originally Posted by erikwebster View Post
literacy for the win
Eusebius and Hegesippus and Clement are not inspired. Don't you think that glowing report of James is a little over the top? Maybe embellished quite a bit?
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #330  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:33 PM
Amos Amos is offline
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

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Originally Posted by erikwebster View Post
I may be a bit mocking, but mostly i just want you to back up what you say.
Bro, I amassed hundreds of posts debating the uncut hair issue with Newman, and if you think she is a pushover, you are mistaken.

I just have lost interest in debating the minutiae of standards with folks whose minds are made up.

Occasionally, for old times' sake I come back around here and post a little, but I am not interested in going into those lengthy battles that wasted a lot of my time in the past.
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"Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:

And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."


--Amos 7:14-15
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