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08-24-2008, 05:31 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
Do we have the right to be harsh in our judgment of others? While I know what I believe I have always tried to explain it with love and for me love has been the key.
It could be because I am a woman and women are usually very tender hearted. It really pains me to be around brutal people and both sides have brutal people.
This subject is like many other subjects that we have gone round and round about.
I hate to mention this but want to give an illustration...A big guy (preacher) walked up to me and said very loud, Sister Janice it is a shame you have helped so many others and you will die and go to hell for preaching...He was so loud everyone standing around just stopped and looked at him...my response was, Brother if I am lost I am one the ones I have helped are thousands....I am willing to be lost for them to be saved...
He was rude and hurtful...I am sure he meant well...but if he had a burden for me would it not have been wisdom to say, Sister Janice let´s sit down I feel a burden for your ministry and in a nice way he could have told me the same thing...
It would not have changed me but it would have changed my feelings for him...
We can show honor and respect to those that differ from us and not budge a bit.
Maybe it is none of my business and everyone here knows how I believe anyway but it pains me the way some people talk to each other.
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Sis A I'm afraid he just in a loud voice told all around how ignorant he was.
When I read this the scripture came to mind when Jesus spoke to Peter and said "satan get behind me" paraphased.
To often we allow satan to use us even when we are NOT aware we are doing that.
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08-24-2008, 05:54 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
I got to thinking about your post and thought, "Hey, this guy sounds right", so I went to look at the scripture passage to check it out more, to see what I hadn't seen before.
I have to admit that I'm disappointed. Scripture in no way is speaking of being born again of God twice. Only once.
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Here is where Jesus is telling him to be born again.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Clearly, Nicodemus isn't understanding. He thinks that Jesus is telling him to be naturally born again.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
It's clear that Jesus is telling him that he's got to be not only born in the natural, but also in the spiritual, thus being born AGAIN.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus is reaffirming that thought by telling him that being born of water (flesh) is the first time, and being born of the spirit is a second time. He's speaking of two types of being born.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I think it's clear that Nicodemus, although well educated, didn't understand what Jesus meant until it was explained to him. Jesus explained the difference in being born of water (flesh) and of the spirit, and why He said you must be born AGAIN.
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HO, respectly, it really isn't as "clear" as you say it is. There can be more than one way to interpret this passage. A man cannot be a man unless he first has a natural birth of the flesh. That's a given. So to be born "AGAIN" does not consist of a natural birth but of a Spiritual birth ONLY and that Spiritual birth, when further explanation is given by Jesus, consists of water and Spirit. At least that's the way I see it and it harmonizes perfectly with what the apostles did and taught.
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His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently.  Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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08-24-2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenter
Pastor preached about the Apostolic preachers who come to the platform in jeans, shirt tail out and a 3 days growth of beard...there is no doubt he was sent these letters.
He preached that God hates that stuff and how those types can't have the power of God and they don't love God like we do and yada yada yada.
More power to those who believe that THEY are the only ones that can reach this city with ONE church and 300 people all at the same time condemning any other approach but theirs.
 I was pretty frustrated after service this morning...
If THIS is indicative of the entire movement, this movement will be dead in 10 years or less, some may be gearing up for Taps right now. 
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The Lord has been leading me to a particular ministry that I've felt particularly incapable of doing, much like Moses did when God called him. Last week I was in church and during the last song I felt a strong sense of God's voice speaking to me to just be like Moses and step out as best I could and that He would step up and do the rest. Immediately after the song one of the staff preachers gave a word of encouragement from the Lord to the congregation that basically said what the Lord had just spoken to my heart in the previous five minutes. It was a pretty special moment for me. I'm thankful that he heard from God and that God spoke to me.
Oh yeah, the preacher was wearing jeans, his funky shirt was untucked and he had long side burns and about a two day growth of beard. He didn't spit and scream and stomp and speak in tongues into the mic and get all agitated. He didn't even use King James syntax and end his word with a rousing "Thus saith the LAAAAAWWWWD!!!" He spoke very gently and softly, almost Baptist like even though it is a Pentecostal church.
The church received it so well that the jeans and flip-flop wearing band members picked up their electric guitars and we all praised and worshiped God while reading the lyrics from a big screen and admiring the colored lights flashing on the stag...uh I mean platform.
Guys like CW and MA need to get over themselves. I know them both personally and just have to roll my eyes at their letters.
Didn't Jesus wear sandals to church?
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08-24-2008, 06:51 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths
Isa 31:1 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!
God's church does NOT need the help of Egypt to reach the lost.
Which reminds me of a message I heard not to long ago from Miles Young from 2 Kings 6:24- about when Samaria was besieged. He taught that
- donkey's head represented stubborness and/or self-will
- dove's dung represented where the Spirit "used to be" and talked about living only on past experiences.
- empty threshing floor represented no harvest; no new people coming in
- empty winepress represented no Spirit flowing
- eating children represented consuming each other by gossiping, etc.
Its a sad thing when an apostolic can only live on past experiences where the Spirit used to flow and be.
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I am continually appalled at how supposedly conservative "literalists" are so willing to freely allegorize and spiritualize scripture in such willy nilly fashion. This is the hermeneutics of the so-called "liberal theologians' they love to bash so often.  {scratching my head}
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"Most human beings are not able to stand the message of the shaking of foundations. They reject and attack the prophetic minds, not because they really disagree with them, but because they sense the truth of their words and cannot receive it." Paul Tillich
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08-24-2008, 07:37 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
One of the problems, as I see it, is that the UPC has set itself up as judge and jury of every other Christian and movement on the face of the earth. They have set themselves up as the receivers, holders and protectors of the "holy grail" of salvation & sanctification doctrine. Therefore, no one else is right enough, holy enough or pure enough (outside of them) to really reach the world.
It is one thing to claim special revelation, even about the godhead etc, and then try to spread that wonderful news. It is completely another thing to state that everyone else who doesn't accept that revelation is going straight to hell, not passing "go" etc.
So when someone like me, who still preaches Ac. 2:38, but is a one stepper comes along, to them, I'm a wishy washy compromiser who loves trinitarians etc, etc. My Youth pastor wear jeans on the platform, has a 3 day growth of a beard and plays electric guitar and really seems to enjoy it as well.
Some can't stand that and would rather be someplace where all of that is relegated to the camp of the devil and criticized as worldly etc. Fine....as Carp said, write the epitaph...."I will not be, I will not be moved" and God will move on as He has done throughout history all the while the little group has bemoaned how things are not as they used to be. When the CLOUD moves, follow it or all you'll have left is rotten worm infested manna. The principles of the word of God don't change like righteousness, holiness, Christ-likeness etc. Methods do. And I'll take a sold out young person in jeans and a 3 day old growth beard any day over a self-righteous bigot who thinks that they're better than everyone else.
In the church I pastor, everyone is welcome! People find Jesus, get delivered, grow in the word, and struggle with their flesh just like every other church on the planet. Women wear pants make up etc. Sexual impurity is not rampant and people aren't getting drunk except in the Spirit every now and then.
The bottom line is reaching the lost! Relevant, irrelevant, lib or con....just reach the lost and leave the rest to Jesus! If the UPC would spend a 10th of the time it does riding the fences, on reaching the lost, it would double over night. Sadly, though, I don't think that is going to happen, because too many people are worried about someone's 3 day beard growth and jeans with an untucked shirt trying to be relevant! The Lord must truly weep when He sees the condition of our world and the fights which take place IN the church instead of fighting the devil outside the church.
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08-24-2008, 08:16 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
HO, respectly, it really isn't as "clear" as you say it is. There can be more than one way to interpret this passage. A man cannot be a man unless he first has a natural birth of the flesh. That's a given. So to be born "AGAIN" does not consist of a natural birth but of a Spiritual birth ONLY and that Spiritual birth, when further explanation is given by Jesus, consists of water and Spirit. At least that's the way I see it and it harmonizes perfectly with what the apostles did and taught.
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That is correct! AGAIN means AGAIN not their natural birth that is a given and needs no instruction.
I asked where is the natural birth ever called born of water in the Bible.
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08-24-2008, 08:16 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
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Also 2Cor.11:4,
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received,
or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.
1John 4:1,
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (test) the spirits whether they
are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Falla39
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08-24-2008, 08:17 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_PoMo
Didn't Jesus wear sandals to church? 
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What was proper synagogue and temple attire?
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His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently.  Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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08-24-2008, 08:20 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
What's the difference between an apostolic preacher in jeans than a fat overwieght apostolic preacher who can't say no to seconds, and gaps for a breath after 3 syllables? A grossly obese preacher is far more of an eyesore than a preacher in jeans. Have we become so anal that we have to critique the wardrobe of the messenger? Did Peter and John wear priestly garments when they evangelized? I'm almost ready to break out my Guns and Roses shirt for my next sermon. (btw, if GnR releases their album in 2008, a major soft drink company will give everyone a free soda.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenter
Pastor preached about the Apostolic preachers who come to the platform in jeans, shirt tail out and a 3 days growth of beard...there is no doubt he was sent these letters.
He preached that God hates that stuff and how those types can't have the power of God and they don't love God like we do and yada yada yada.
More power to those who believe that THEY are the only ones that can reach this city with ONE church and 300 people all at the same time condemning any other approach but theirs.
 I was pretty frustrated after service this morning...
If THIS is indicative of the entire movement, this movement will be dead in 10 years or less, some may be gearing up for Taps right now. 
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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08-24-2008, 08:22 PM
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Re: Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
What was proper synagogue and temple attire?
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Diesel jeans, Hurley t-shirt, and Chuck Taylors.
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"Most human beings are not able to stand the message of the shaking of foundations. They reject and attack the prophetic minds, not because they really disagree with them, but because they sense the truth of their words and cannot receive it." Paul Tillich
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