I do believe it IS necessary. But I do NOT believe that it is necessary for someone to speak in tongues to make it to heaven. Hence, I do NOT believe that a person must have the baptism of the HG to get to heaven. It is NOT just a bonus. It is necessary for power and to be like Jesus. Why would someone not want that experience?
Some folks mistake rudeness for boldness. It is never right to be rude. Some folks have NO manners.
Amen. Your three sentances should be required reading for every person calling themselves a Christian.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Some folks mistake rudeness for boldness. It is never right to be rude. Some folks have NO manners.
And then again some folks are just MORONS! It puts me in remembrance of the days of Moses when the two elders Eldad and Medad were prophesying in the camp and the officious sticklers for what was RIGHT came running up to him to tell him about it and then ask if he wanted them to go and STOP THEM as they were completely out of order. Moses reply I wish ALL Gods people were prophets! Lets say just for the sake of argument that all these women who went and preached Christ and established the gospel in far away lands and in horrible circumstances and established hundreds if not THOUSANDS of Jesus Name One God Apostolic Churches , lets just say that every single one of them were out of the will of God, All I can say is I WOULD TO GOD THAT THERE WERE TEN THOUSAND ***MORE*** WOMEN OUT OF THE WILL OF GOD PREACHING CHRIST AND DUPLICATING THEIR EXAMPLE!
Pastor preached about the Apostolic preachers who come to the platform in jeans, shirt tail out and a 3 days growth of beard...there is no doubt he was sent these letters.
He preached that God hates that stuff and how those types can't have the power of God and they don't love God like we do and yada yada yada.
More power to those who believe that THEY are the only ones that can reach this city with ONE church and 300 people all at the same time condemning any other approach but theirs.
I was pretty frustrated after service this morning...
If THIS is indicative of the entire movement, this movement will be dead in 10 years or less, some may be gearing up for Taps right now.
Pastor preached about the Apostolic preachers who come to the platform in jeans, shirt tail out and a 3 days growth of beard...there is no doubt he was sent these letters.
He preached that God hates that stuff and how those types can't have the power of God and they don't love God like we do and yada yada yada.
More power to those who believe that THEY are the only ones that can reach this city with ONE church and 300 people all at the same time condemning any other approach but theirs.
I was pretty frustrated after service this morning...
If THIS is indicative of the entire movement, this movement will be dead in 10 years or less, some may be gearing up for Taps right now.
I sure hope you are wrong... I know many are more progressive.
Carp correct me if I'm wrong, but I see little harm in defending a traditional, formal approach. Rather it is the condemnation of others and exclusivity that heaps judgement on oneself. When we judge others harshly it is not just God's judgement we should fear, all your peers and colleagues will also then expect superb performance. It is very common for the criticism to turn inward.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
LOL!!! Naw, they don't consider me part of the "Apostolic movement" since I don't condemn trinitarians to hell, believe trinitarians are polytheistic, nor do I shockamoo.
I just think anyone who can interpret the scripture the way you do believes that God talks like a kindergarten teacher to those who seeks him for wisdom.
To think that the wonderful counselor is speaking insights and understandings by stating "you must be born once to be born again" is laugh-able....if it were not for the fact that some folks actually believe that to be the understanding being amplified by Jesus' response to Nicodemas' quandary.
Do we have any other references where our Lord and Savior brings such crystal clarity to the blatantly obvious?
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
I just think anyone who can interpret the scripture the way you do believes that God talks like a kindergarten teacher to those who seeks him for wisdom.
To think that the wonderful counselor is speaking insights and understandings by stating "you must be born once to be born again" is laugh-able....if it were not for the fact that some folks actually believe that to be the understanding being amplified by Jesus' response to Nicodemas' quandary.
Do we have any other references where our Lord and Savior brings such crystal clarity to the blatantly obvious?
I got to thinking about your post and thought, "Hey, this guy sounds right", so I went to look at the scripture passage to check it out more, to see what I hadn't seen before.
I have to admit that I'm disappointed. Scripture in no way is speaking of being born again of God twice. Only once.
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Here is where Jesus is telling him to be born again.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Clearly, Nicodemus isn't understanding. He thinks that Jesus is telling him to be naturally born again.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
It's clear that Jesus is telling him that he's got to be not only born in the natural, but also in the spiritual, thus being born AGAIN.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus is reaffirming that thought by telling him that being born of water (flesh) is the first time, and being born of the spirit is a second time. He's speaking of two types of being born.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I think it's clear that Nicodemus, although well educated, didn't understand what Jesus meant until it was explained to him. Jesus explained the difference in being born of water (flesh) and of the spirit, and why He said you must be born AGAIN.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I got to thinking about your post and thought, "Hey, this guy sounds right", so I went to look at the scripture passage to check it out more, to see what I hadn't seen before.
I have to admit that I'm disappointed. Scripture in no way is speaking of being born again of God twice. Only once.
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Here is where Jesus is telling him to be born again.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Clearly, Nicodemus isn't understanding. He thinks that Jesus is telling him to be naturally born again.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
It's clear that Jesus is telling him that he's got to be not only born in the natural, but also in the spiritual, thus being born AGAIN.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus is reaffirming that thought by telling him that being born of water (flesh) is the first time, and being born of the spirit is a second time. He's speaking of two types of being born.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I think it's clear that Nicodemus, although well educated, didn't understand what Jesus meant until it was explained to him. Jesus explained the difference in being born of water (flesh) and of the spirit, and why He said you must be born AGAIN.
It wasn't until after years of preaching that "born of water" meant "water baptism" that I finally saw that Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question and explaining the difference between the two births there.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I was pretty frustrated after service this morning...
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