Letter from Bro. Chester Wright to Bro. Haney

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by Sam

The light doctrine is an old established doctrine in Oneness Pentecost.
Bishop G.T. Haywood taught it and he is highly revered by both black and white Apostolics.
My former pastor, F.E. Curts, who was Superintendent of the Ohio District (UPC) for years and considered a "Bible Teacher" taught the light doctrine. Many ministers were influenced by him.
S.G. Norris taught the light doctrine at the Apostolic Bible Institute for years. Hundreds of ministers and officials in the UPC were influenced by his teaching.
These are not "second hand" observations. I have Bishop Haywood's book on the resurrection. I can furnish it as a pdf file to anyone who wants it. I sat under Bro. Curts for several years, teaching Sunday School and even preaching in his church. I attended ABI for one year.

Can anyone teach me the light doctrine from the word of God?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Can anyone teach me the light doctrine from the word of God?

I can't. But neither do I see a mercy God allowing for those who have believed in Him and living what they have been taught and believed just damned to hell, no recourse, just lost.

Our God is just too big for that.

There are limits to this argument, of course. What a person believes and lives can not contradict what the Word of the Lord says, in principle.

But when I lived in NC, to have some folk tell it, if you weren't going to my UPCI church in our town that had at least 7 other Apostolic churches, you were just damned to hell, no recourse, just lost.

All the other "Christians" could just hang it up-- they didn't have a chance in Heaven!!

I don't agree with that now, but then, I did, though I never condemned the other Apostolics.

[Blaylock]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Do you have the author's permission to post these? Or were they made public?

Nope this man does not have permission

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by Sam

Of course I have no idea who this teacher is and I don't need to know.

When the UPC was formed in 1945, ministers with different opinions on the new birth came together in a new organization. Some ministers believed that justification/salvation/regeneration happened at repentance. Others believed that justification/salvation/regeneration did not happen until repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism had been experienced. We don't really know how many or what percentage of those ministers fell into either of those two groups. The main thing was that they agreed to fellowship based on baptism in Jesus' name and would respect one another's opinions about how and when a person is saved or born again. Why can't we Oneness/Apostolic/Pentecostal folks do the same today? Why do we (both one-steppers and three-steppers) argue, criticize, put down, belittle, mock, condemn, etc instead of respecting one another and accepting one another as brothers and sisters?

1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
2 It is like the precious ointment poured on the head, that ran down on the beard, even the beard of Aaron [the first high priest], that came down upon the collar and skirts of his garments [consecrating the whole body].
3 It is like the dew of [lofty] Mount Hermon and the dew that comes on the hills of Zion; for there the Lord has commanded the blessing, even life forevermore [upon the high and the lowly].
Psalm 133:1-3 from the Amplified Bible

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

It just amazes me that some "Apostolics" don't even know what saving message to preach to the lost to tell them how to be saved; like it is so mysterious and only a few chosen men really know which is the "real" one.

My Lord, are we back to Catholicism where only the priests could understand the word of God?

What kind of a witness "are" apostolics to non-apostolics and maybe even none believers, when they visit this site and even "Apostolics" are unsure which is the real saving message?

My Lord have mercy!

Questioning the plan of salvation now by Apostolics - hmmmm - I wonder what the start was of that slippery slope?

If one gives in a little, what to stop them from continuing to give in and continuing to give in. If the devil can convince you to just give in a little, where is it going to stop?

Most apostolics know the story of those who "departed from the faith" and ended up being the early Catholics. Did they continue stedfastly in the apostle's doctrine? Not on your life.

I just wonder if the reason why some are willing to give up Jesus name water baptism is because after they were baptized they didn't feel any different at all than before they went under? Like water baptism didn't accomplish ANYTHING in that person's life at all other than being SYMBOLIC - which incidentally is mostly what the "Christians" in error teach.

I though I would never see the day, but lo and behold.

I was always warned by my pastor and other holy men of God about these sorts of things and lo and behold. Kinda reminds me of...

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

God's ministry doesn't stop warning about these sorts of things. Its almost like they knew it would come just like the bible shows us.

But I guess in Revelations even Jesus showed how that Apostolics can leave their first love, play with idolatry, fornication, the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes; suffer self-called Jezebels to teach, seduce others, play with idolatry, and commit adultery; not remembering how they received and heard, not watching, defiling their garments (garment spotted by the flesh? Jude 1:23); lukewarm; and thinking that they are rich and increased with good and have need of nothing, because after tall they are apostolic, and have absolutely no idea that they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked.

But those churches and ministers who are still in the hand of Jesus, have Jesus and the ministers to warn them about what kind of condition they are in and to tell them to repent.

Achan in the valley of achor disobeyed and because of one man's disobedience, thousands of innocent people in God's church who were being obedient died on the front lines to their enemies. But because that church had a leader appointed and annointed of God through Moses who followed his father in the faith; Joshua sought God for the root cause of the problem and not just trying to treat the symptoms, and God showed which tribe, family, and person was the cause, and got rid of the problem. Afterwards God's church had victory over their enemies again.

Thank God for men of God who have followed their fathers in the faith and not backed down who were called and annointed of God to lead and that can recognize when there is a problem in the church and who will seek after God no matter what to reveal the root cause and to eliminate it so that God's church can be a shining light of victory over sin to a world lying in wickedness.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm gonna make two points.

1. Originally the Apostolic/Pentecostals were what we on this forum call one-steppers. They did not believe water baptism and Spirit baptism were the new birth and they did not believe that water baptism and Spirit baptism were necessary for salvation. That teaching came along later and has now permeated much of the Oneness Pentecostal movement. That some are now going back to what we call the "one-step" plan of salvation just means that people are getting back to their Apostolic/Pentecostal roots.

Brother it sounds like to me that you are confusing Charismatic claims to being apostolic and using that title, and true apostolics.

The following link might be of interest to you regarding -

A HISTORICAL RECORD WITH REFERENCES OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES - From Acts to Present - http://www.doctrinesofchrist.com/A%2...%20Tongues.htm

To think that the apostolic church only existed in the first few centuries and then died out completely and then started up again from scratch by those who were getting little glimpses of truth after repenting out of Catholicism is just not true.

The gates of hell have NEVER prevailed against God's church, it is now NOT PREVAILING against his church, and SHALL NOT PREVAIL against his church. There has always been a church somewhere from Acts 2 until the present day.

Another link that might interest you is -

Bro Weisser, an Apostolic historian, teaches about Jesus name baptism through the ages.

http://youthalive.podomatic.com/entr...22_56_00-07_00

Brother I don't know where you are getting your information from and if its from the charismatic authors, then I would say to get rid of that stuff, because it just isn't true. Do some more research and get you some better sources.

[CC1]

theoldpaths,

Do you believe that the Oneness Apostolic pioneers had facial hair or have all of those photos been doctored?

Do you know that the wife of the first GS of the UPC mentioned how the ladies used to dress up in their best fur and pearls for church in her book about the early days of the Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal movement?

Do you know that publications by Andrew Urshan have been heavily edited by the PPH from their originaol content? One book or booklet that was titled something like "38 Questions, etc" had a lot of the questions taken out because more modern UPCers didn't like his answers but they left the title of the book alone. The result was a book with a lot less questions and answers than the title indicated!

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by 1399

I can't. But neither do I see a mercy God allowing for those who have believed in Him and living what they have been taught and believed just damned to hell, no recourse, just lost.

Our God is just too big for that.

There are limits to this argument, of course. What a person believes and lives can not contradict what the Word of the Lord says, in principle.

But when I lived in NC, to have some folk tell it, if you weren't going to my UPCI church in our town that had at least 7 other Apostolic churches, you were just damned to hell, no recourse, just lost.

All the other "Christians" could just hang it up-- they didn't have a chance in Heaven!!

I don't agree with that now, but then, I did, though I never condemned the other Apostolics.

Salvation is such an important thing as it involves where one is going to spend all of eternity.

For something that important, I have to believe that it can be found in the word of God and that since Jesus was going to leave the earth and entrust the preaching of the salvation message to the lost to men on the earth, I have to believe that he made sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they KNEW what to preach to people telling them HOW to be saved, before he left the earth.

In fact after Jesus resurrected, he spent 40 DAYS speaking to them about the kingdom of God.

Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Hmmm - kingdom of God...

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

See Jesus told them WHAT to do to be able to enter into the kingdom, but he didn't tell them HOW to do it - that door was still locked.

But Jesus said he would give Peter the keys to the kingdom (Matt 16), essentially, to be able to unlock the door to be able to enter into the kingdom of God. Notice keys - PLURAL - like there are more than ONE, but maybe 3? Catch that all ONE STEPPERS?

Where did Jesus give Peter and the rest of his disciples the keys? Why in Luke 24...

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24 is where Jesus told them WHAT to preach and Acts 2:38 is Peter obeying and fulfilling Jesus' giving Peter the keys to unlock the door of HOW to be saved.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Luke's version of the Great Commission - Luke 24:47-49 - repentance, remission of sins in Jesus name, and Holy Ghost

The Great Commission fulfilled by Peter in Acts 2:38 - repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and Holy Ghost

Glory to God!

[Jermyn Davidson]

And so in the dark ages when the European serfs could not read, but were told what to believe and do, were those MILLIONS just damned to hell because of the time period they were born in?

Your argument gives no one a chance at God's Grace and Mercy!!!

My God is Gracious and "Plenteous in mercy"!!

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by 1399

And so in the dark ages when the European serfs could not read, but were told what to believe and do, were those MILLIONS just damned to hell because of the time period they were born in?

Your argument gives no one a chance at God's Grace and Mercy!!!

My God is Gracious and "Plenteous in mercy"!!

So is mine and I'm still apostolic!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

So is mine and I'm still apostolic!

Well that makes two of us! I know that there are many, many more than just the two of us!