Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Any takers with me on the water not phisically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

I'm with you on that one. It is the blood and always has been the blood.

[KWSS1976]

Ok so that would be a con in the three step theroy cause the water does not wash anything off but real dirt...not spiritual dirt.. So there is a con.....

[KWSS1976]

And the bible already stated that you "WILL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLYGHOST" it does not say you have to pray for it,seek for it,ask for it,jump up and down 10 times for it..speak in tongues to proof it etc........So thats another con... (holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues)I know plenty of people that have repented.baptisesd in Jesus name and according to the scripture they recieved the holyghost and guess what they did not speak in tongues...You want to know how I know they recieved the holyghost cause Acts 2:38 tells you they WILL......O might I remind you they were already saved before they got baptised cause the water does not physically remove the sin...So there ya have it....T.G.I.lF everyone

[Sam]

We need to be careful to not go to an extreme either way. Some times when we discuss (or argue) questions like this we go pretty far off.

Believing in Jesus brings a change in a person's life. The person desires to obey and serve God. If this change does not happen, we can wonder if there really is repentance and faith in the first place.

But, if we rely on doing certain things such as submitting to baptism, then we are trusting in obedience or works.

Somewhere between what some may call "easy believism" and an insistence on certain deeds/works being done in a certain order before a person can be legally considered to be justified/saved/regenerated lies "salvation by faith."

[KWSS1976]

Sam you never cease to amaze me..Good post..

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I am expecting the three-step crowd to step up and give scriptural support for the doctrine before we start giving the cons of the doctrine.

You cannot just make a mental ascent to God. One must follow his words with action. Faith without works is dead and if you are not willing to be obedient to Christs' commands, you will not be saved.

Calvary isn't about Jesus alone, its about us as well. We must appropriate the work he did for us. It must be applied to our lives in a watery grave. We must be willing to follow. Repentance is the beginning of obedience. One has not fully obeyed the scriptures until he/she has fully surrendered their lives and receive all that God has appropriated for them.

Baptism is essential because it shows obedience. One cannot be resurrected without the Holy Spirit and you cannot receive the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues. In essence, you cannot pass from this life to the next unless you have obeyed all three steps.

So, there DG, stop fighting the gospel. Get in the next prayer line.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Any takers with me on the water not physically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

I realize there are differences of opinion here, but in my opinion, water baptism does not actually wash away anything but is the answer/response to a clear conscience with God.

Some of those who believe water baptism is needed to obtain remission/forgiveness of sin believe that "the blood is in the name" and properly reciting the name audibly removes/washes away/forgives/remits the sin. I think I actually had an article in the Pentecostal Herald that said that but I haven't been able to find it. Maybe it was just in the Ohio District UPC paper. Others believe that the act of obedience washes away/removes/etc. the sin.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

And the bible already stated that you "WILL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLYGHOST" it does not say you have to pray for it,seek for it,ask for it,jump up and down 10 times for it..speak in tongues to proof it etc........So thats another con... (holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues)I know plenty of people that have repented.baptisesd in Jesus name and according to the scripture they recieved the holyghost and guess what they did not speak in tongues...You want to know how I know they recieved the holyghost cause Acts 2:38 tells you they WILL......O might I remind you they were already saved before they got baptised cause the water does not physically remove the sin...So there ya have it....T.G.I.lF everyone

Not so fast...the disciples prayed for them, layed hands on them that they might receive the Holy Ghost. Just because the bible does not specifically say they spoke in tongues does not mean they didn't. The precedence was set at Pentecost and followed throughout Christiandom.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Any takers with me on the water not physically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

Water is the agent whereby our physical bodies are cleansed. God always uses the physical as a sign for the spiritual. God washes our sins away at baptism when we immerse as a physical example of what He is doing spiritually.

[KWSS1976]

What does Acts 2:38 state? something to the effect of they (Will Recieve)that means you will get it...alot of people have died in this world and have not spoke in tongues but have completed all the other steps so did they not have the holyghost cause the bible clearly states you (WILL RECIEVE)