Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

But Stephen if that person repents then they want gods spirit to guide them they want that chnanged life so therefore they will have the holyspirit according to scripture

I have no arguement here. The willingness to recieve and have the Spirit in ones life is ongoing. Not just an event such as initial conversion or speaking in tongues.

[deltaguitar]

I know this is kind of reaching but I know growing up I was told that Peter had the keys to salvation and that is why we should listen to him. Is it a fair argument to say that Peter alone had the keys to the kingdom? I know this is used by the Church of Christ. So is it fair to use this scripture as an argument for the three-step doctrine.


Matthew 16:18-19 (English Standard Version)
18And I tell you,(AE) you are Peter, and(AF) on this rock[b] I will build my church, and(AG) the gates of(AH) hell[c] shall not prevail against it. 19I will give you(AI) the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and(AJ) whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[d] in heaven."

[Barb]

Good thread idea...

To begin with, guitarman, until I discovered the internet a few years ago, I had never heard tell of 1 and 3 steppers, or PAJCers and PCIers.

One either believed in repentance, baptism in the Name, and Spirit infilling, or you didn't.

And if you didn't, you weren't saved.

Period. No discussion.

Then I dropped in on FCF...whew!!

There I found people...good, sincere people who believed in baptism and Spirit infilling, but if you kicked before this happened, you were saved at belief and repentance.

It's been a mind boggling journey, to say the least.

I apologize for not addressing your point right off, but I felt it necessary to give this preamble to my remarks.

It was on FCF that I knew there were labels for these different beliefs. My view is that to label folks as 3-steppers is a misnomer.

Repentance is not, and really cannot be the 'first step'.

Belief is the beginning of any discussion on salvation, and that's the view of this 'PAJCer'.

Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. KJV

As one writer said, "Saving faith is the open door through which the grace of God is extended to a sinner..."

Once we believe that He is and that He came to save, we see ourselves for the lowly creatures we are, and fall on our faces in true repentance.

I need to run and get ready for work, and all of that I have written may seem elementary to the scholars here.

I will try and get back to this late tonight...it's a good subject, and one that we should be able to support.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Barb

Good thread idea...

To begin with, guitarman, until I discovered the internet a few years ago, I had never heard tell of 1 and 3 steppers, or PAJCers and PCIers.

One either believed in repentance, baptism in the Name, and Spirit infilling, or you didn't.

And if you didn't, you weren't saved.

Period. No discussion.

Then I dropped in on FCF...whew!!

There I found people...good, sincere people who believed in baptism and Spirit infilling, but if you kicked before this happened, you were saved at belief and repentance.

It's been a mind boggling journey, to say the least.

I apologize for not addressing your point right off, but I felt it necessary to give this preamble to my remarks.

It was on FCF that I knew there were labels for these different beliefs. My view is that to label folks as 3-steppers is a misnomer.

Repentance is not, and really cannot be the 'first step'.

Belief is the beginning of any discussion on salvation, and that's the view of this 'PAJCer'.

Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. KJV

As one writer said, "Saving faith is the open door through which the grace of God is extended to a sinner..."

Once we believe that He is and that He came to save, we see ourselves for the lowly creatures we are, and fall on our faces in true repentance.

I need to run and get ready for work, and all of that I have written may seem elementary to the scholars here.

I will try and get back to this late tonight...it's a good subject, and one that we should be able to support.

Thanks for your input. I have a hard time distinguishing between the timing of belief, and repentance, and faith. To me it happens so suddenly that it could be just a few seconds between the three. We can believe in God and that Jesus is the Saviour without having saving faith. The bible says that the demons believe just like I have friends that I go to church with that believe in God yet haven't submitted their lives to Him.

[deltaguitar]

I am expecting the three-step crowd to step up and give scriptural support for the doctrine before we start giving the cons of the doctrine.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Barb

Good thread idea...

To begin with, guitarman, until I discovered the internet a few years ago, I had never heard tell of 1 and 3 steppers, or PAJCers and PCIers.

One either believed in repentance, baptism in the Name, and Spirit infilling, or you didn't.
And if you didn't, you weren't saved.

Period. No discussion.

That is part of the breakdown in communication. Some OPs have been told other churches DO NOT believe in baptism "in the name" and recieving the Holy Spirit. Most often though, this is forcing a definition on non-OPs.

Now if they narrow it to involkation at the moment of immersion, and speaking in tongues that changes things...

[KWSS1976]

Ok so we know what repentance is now what does the water do... would everyone agree that is does not wash physically you sins away..

[ManOfWord]

The major weakness of the PURE 3 step doctrine is that it puts EVERYONE in hell, w/no exceptions, regardless of true repentance and a changed and surrendered life to Jesus Christ, who has NOT either been baptized in Jesus' name or has not spoken with tongues. And it puts EVERYONE in hell who HAS received the HGB speaking in tongues but has not been baptized in Jesus' name.

The strength is that it preserves Ac. 2:38 in its entirety and when preached as Holy Ghost or hell, produces a lot more folks who speak in tongues.

[KWSS1976]

[KWSS1976]

Any takers with me on the water not physically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL