OK lets make it as simple as it can be made.
IS YHWH THE FATHER OF JESUS?
If he is not who is?
The short answer is yes... but it is really a misplaced question if your followup intention is to turn it around and claim Jesus, the Son of God, was His own Father.
The fact is, there were things that Jesus, the divine Son of God did not know (or perhaps willingly limited himself from) that the Father in heaven knew.
While He was/is indeed God almighty - the YHWH of the old Testament, there are clear distinctions between Jesus, the Son of God (God revealed in and through the incarnation), and the Father (God's continued existence apart from humanity). This explains the ability of the Father and Son to communicate with each other and to love each other.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
The short answer is yes... but it is really a misplaced question if your followup intention is to turn it around and claim Jesus, the Son of God, was His own Father.
The fact is, there were things that Jesus, the divine Son of God did not know (or perhaps willingly limited himself from) that the Father in heaven knew.
While He was/is indeed God almighty - the YHWH of the old Testament, there are clear distinctions between Jesus, the Son of God (God revealed in and through the incarnation), and the Father (God's continued existence apart from humanity). This explains the ability of the Father and Son to communicate with each other and to love each other.
Excellent explanation.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
The short answer is yes... but it is really a misplaced question if your followup intention is to turn it around and claim Jesus, the Son of God, was His own Father.
The fact is, there were things that Jesus, the divine Son of God did not know (or perhaps willingly limited himself from) that the Father in heaven knew.
While He was/is indeed God almighty - the YHWH of the old Testament, there are clear distinctions between Jesus, the Son of God (God revealed in and through the incarnation), and the Father (God's continued existence apart from humanity). This explains the ability of the Father and Son to communicate with each other and to love each other.
The answer is yes true. Jesus is YHWH. YHWH is the Father of Jesus. Why are Oneness ashamed of this awesome truth? He is both the Father and the Son.
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
The answer is yes true. Jesus is YHWH. YHWH is the Father of Jesus. Why are Oneness ashamed of this awesome truth? He is both the Father and the Son.
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
Note the Messiah is both the Father and the Son.
I don't believe it's proper to say He was/is the Father and the Son. By definition, the Only Begotten Son is precluded from being the Father He prayed to, loved and prayed his will be done in his life.
Jesus is God and therefore the Father of eternity - yes. But nowhere do we read He was the Father of the Son. The Father was God apart from the experience of the incarnation. That is why the only way to God the Father is through Jesus who has experienced humanity as we and gave His life willingly.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I don't believe it's proper to say He was/is the Father and the Son. By definition, the Only Begotten Son is precluded from being the Father He prayed to, loved and prayed his will be done in his life.
Oops! Someone forgot to tell the Prophet Isaiah this!
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
And todays modern Oneness would have cautioned Yeshua about this statement:
25 years ago when I converted to Pentecostalism it was very common to hear people say "he got the revelation of one God".
Often it was even added to the events of conversion... "he received the revlation of one God while driving his car, and was baptised in Jesus Name the next night. It was a specific and distinct occurance and added to the three Acts 2:38 steps - sort of like some others added "sanctification" in the past.
The accompanying teaching was that God opens the understanding and the revelation could not be received through study and intellect alone.
Do you remember this teaching?
Is it still taught some places?
I haven't read what others have written yet, but I definately remember this and am surprised you even asked. I thought this was one of the backbones of the AP experience and/or conversion. It was taught regularly where I came from. Of course we were in the middle of the Bible belt, where the distinction may have been more of a necessity.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
25 years ago when I converted to Pentecostalism it was very common to hear people say "he got the revelation of one God".
Often it was even added to the events of conversion... "he received the revlation of one God while driving his car, and was baptised in Jesus Name the next night. It was a specific and distinct occurance and added to the three Acts 2:38 steps - sort of like some others added "sanctification" in the past.
The accompanying teaching was that God opens the understanding and the revelationcould not be received through study and intellect alone.
Do you remember this teaching?
Is it still taught some places?
Isn't this tantamount to admitting that it is not Biblical?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I don't believe it's proper to say He was/is the Father and the Son. By definition, the Only Begotten Son is precluded from being the Father He prayed to, loved and prayed his will be done in his life.
Check this quote from Yeshua:
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
He said he was still living in Heaven while he was standing on Earth.
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
He said he was still living in Heaven while he was standing on Earth.
Who was he in Heaven when he made that statement?
To me, it's simple. He can be both yet not both at the same time. But Jesus was NOT His own Father, however, He was God at the same time while being man as well.
There are some who will argue that since Jesus was God and Jesus died, therefore, God died. Not so.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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