Elizabeth,John The Baptist and John were given a enduement of The Holy Ghost as a soverign act of God.
I don't read of them seeking to be Spirit filled.
I don't understand all of this ,but I except what the Bible says.
However we don't find masses of people receiving The Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
It does not really change anything. The Holy Ghost, at the time, had not yet been given. Why? Because Jesus had not yet been glorified. They were told specifically to go and wait for this gift at Jerusalem and it took till the day of Pentecost for this event to happen
It does if you believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit as oneness propagates. It also goes back to the heart of trinitarianism, "was Jesus eternal"?
You mention they were told to wait for "this gift". Was that not the return of the spirit of Christ back to this earth? If the spirit of Christ is eternal (God the Father), and omniscient and omnipresent, couldn 't it exist even as Jesus the man existed and operate in others while Jesus walked the earth?
Why couldn't the Holy Spirit be in Elizabeth and in Jesus at the same time? The body of Jesus was temporal, then while Jesus walked this earth, others had the Holy Spirit also in them?
It does if you believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit as oneness propagates. It also goes back to the heart of trinitarianism, "was Jesus eternal"?
You mention they were told to wait for "this gift". Was that not the return of the spirit of Christ back to this earth? If the spirit of Christ is eternal (God the Father), and omniscient and omnipresent, couldn 't it exist even as Jesus the man existed and operate in others while Jesus walked the earth?
Why couldn't the Holy Spirit be in Elizabeth and in Jesus at the same time? The body of Jesus was temporal, then while Jesus walked this earth, others had the Holy Spirit also in them?
No it still does not affect any issue. How does it affect the issue of Jesus being the Holy Spirit? Trinitarians and OP both believe that the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified....so do JWs..
The Holy Spirit COULD be in Elizabeth and in Jesus at the same time...who says it could not? The question I thought was about salvation not theology
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Are stating her sins were never forgiven/remitted under the law?
Huh? Who has made this claim.
Uh not that sin is wiped away ...
Nothing should prevent God ... he enters and makes residence right away ... and being that God is the Holy Spirit ... well you fill in the blanks. According to your doctrine ... God made residence in Cornelius ... without first wiping his sins away.
Through our continual faith in His sacrifice our sins are forgiven .... all we must do is confess our sins ... and he forgives us. See 1 John.
Dan, I'm going to have to say that though the Greek for remission is the same as forgiveness, the Bible definition of this word doesn't exactly mean what we think when we say the word, forgive. Baptism in water is referred to as a washing, a cleansing, a blotting out, a circumcision, remission, forgiveness of sins. It's not just a grant of pardon but an actual REMOVAL of the body of sins from our hearts, a purging of our conscience by the blood of Christ. Something in reality takes place. These are not figures of speech but a real event, as real as a circumcision made with hands.
Forgiveness is the mental, emotional and/or spiritual process of ceasing to feel resentment, indignation or anger against another person for a perceived offence, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution[1]. Wiki
1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
3. to grant pardon to (a person).
4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies.
5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
–verb (used without object) 6. to pardon an offense or an offender.
dictionary.com
1 John is written to saints, those who have already been baptized in Jesus name.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
So, if Elizabath, John, and Zacharias had been alive for the Upper Room experience, would they have had to been there (received the Holy Ghost)?
Would they have had to receive the Holy Ghost AGAIN to be saved?
What do you think?
What about those who were already baptized in Jesus name unto repentance for the remission of sin prior to his death? John 4:1-2, Mark 1:4
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
No it still does not affect any issue. How does it affect the issue of Jesus being the Holy Spirit? Trinitarians and OP both believe that the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified....so do JWs..
The Holy Spirit COULD be in Elizabeth and in Jesus at the same time...who says it could not? The question I thought was about salvation not theology
Well, since we settled that Elizabeth did have the H.G., would God fill someone with His Spirit without redeeming it first? Since redemption is a work of the Spirit, and repentance was readily preached and practiced, why would she not be saved?
This also goes to the heart of 3 steps theology. As you and I should agree, many people are filled with the H.G. without ever being baptized in water. Water does not save you, it has no redemptive value. It is the word of God that gives birth and the Spirit that gives life and produces sanctification. Jesus said "when He comes" he will reprove the world. (H.G.)(John 16)
Water Baptism is a witness of our submission and identifies with the one whom we serve. Under the old covenant water baptism was used to "wash" away impurities, but under the new covenant, its a witness to our faith.
Well, since we settled that Elizabeth did have the H.G., would God fill someone with His Spirit without redeeming it first? Since redemption is a work of the Spirit, and repentance was readily preached and practiced, why would she not be saved?
This also goes to the heart of 3 steps theology. As you and I should agree, many people are filled with the H.G. without ever being baptized in water. Water does not save you, it has no redemptive value. It is the word of God that gives birth and the Spirit that gives life and produces sanctification. Jesus said "when He comes" he will reprove the world. (H.G.)(John 16)
Water Baptism is a witness of our submission and identifies with the one whom we serve. Under the old covenant water baptism was used to "wash" away impurities, but under the new covenant, its a witness to our faith.
What about those who were already baptized in Jesus name unto repentance for the remission of sin prior to his death? John 4:1-2, Mark 1:4
There was nobody recorded to have been baptized in Jesus name before His death. The baptism was one of repentance, referred to as the baptism of John. It was not for the remission of sin, but just a baptism of repentance. Those who were baptized under John's baptism were told to be baptized again in the Name of Jesus.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
There was nobody recorded to have been baptized in Jesus name before His death. The baptism was one of repentance, referred to as the baptism of John. It was not for the remission of sin, but just a baptism of repentance. Those who were baptized under John's baptism were told to be baptized again in the Name of Jesus.
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Mark 1:4-5John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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