Greek Studies??

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Thanks, but you didn't answer my question about the "basis" of the scripture passage. Tell me what you, thus far, think the "basis" is - if you can or are ready.

Deut 22:5? I'm not ready to post that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Deut 22:5? I'm not ready to post that.

Great! When you are ready. I will be going out of town in the next day or two.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Great! When you are ready. I will be going out of town in the next day or two.

And I'm working all week except the 25th, and all 4 kids are home 24/7 for 2 weeks. lol

I'm making zero promises on the speed with which I will finish this. The only thing I can promise is that someday, it will be finished. lol

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

And I'm working all week except the 25th, and all 4 kids are home 24/7 for 2 weeks. lol

I'm making zero promises on the speed with which I will finish this. The only thing I can promise is that someday, it will be finished. lol

That's fine. I make the same commitment on my studying - turtle slow.

[A.W. Bowman]

Over this past year or so I have often stated that the Hebrew language is a conceptual (verb - action based) language, while Greek and English are concrete (noun-object based) languages. While I can't sure I ever posted such on this forum or not, I really don't know. However, at least my correction will get some exposure if posted here.

While being correct in some other technical aspects, I have also committed a major error. While my initial Hebrew instructor and mentor, Robert Allon, provided me with the correct information, I did not receive it as presented.

The following excerpt from "His Name is One" by Jeff A. Benner, clearly rectifies my misunderstanding, and presents the correct approach to understanding the difference between the Hebrew and English languages.

For the confusion I created over this issue I offer my apologizes.

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Abstract vs. concrete thought:

We have previously discussed the differences between the modern Western thinkers method of describing something compared to the ancient Hebrew Eastern thinker. Here we will look at another major difference between the two which impacts how we read the Biblical text.

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Insert - referenced discussion comment

One of the major differences between our Western culture and the Eastern culture of the ancient Hebrews is how someone or something is described. The Hebrew was not so concerned with the appearance of someone or something, as he was with its function. A Western mind would describe a common pencil according to its appearance, something like; “it is yellow and about eight inches long.” An Eastern mind describes the same pencil according to its function, something like; “I write and erase words with it.” Notice that the Eastern description uses the verbs “write” and “erase,” while the Western description uses the adjectives “yellow” and “long.” Because of Hebrew’s form of functional descriptions, verbs are used much more frequently then adjectives in the Bible.

End insert
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The Eastern mind views the world through concrete thought that is expressed in ways that can be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard. An example of this can be found in Psalms 1:3 where the author expresses his thoughts in such concrete terms as; tree, streams of water, fruit, leaf and wither.

“He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season, and whose leaf does not wither.” (NIV)

The Western mind views the world through abstract thought that is expressed in ways that cannot be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard. Examples of Abstract thought can be found in Psalms 103:8;

“The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.” (NIV)

The words compassion, grace, anger and love are all abstract words, ideas that cannot be experienced by the senses. Why do we find these abstract words in a passage from concrete thinking Hebrews? Actually, these are abstract English words used to translate the original Hebrew concrete words. The translators will often substitute a concrete word for an abstract word because the original Hebrew concrete imagery would make no sense when literally translated into English.

[A.W. Bowman]

Now, please note that even Mr. Benner, the author, fell victim to the same problem:

The translators will often substitute a concrete word for an abstract word because the original Hebrew concrete imagery would make no sense when literally translated into English.

.

It should have read: The translators will often substitute an abstract [English] word for an concrete [Hebrew] word because the original Hebrew concrete imagery would make no sense when literally translated into English.

Even so, this does not my error in less significant!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

Over this past year or so I have often stated that the Hebrew language is a conceptual (verb - action based) language, while Greek and English are concrete (noun-object based) languages. While I can't sure I ever posted such on this forum or not, I really don't know. However, at least my correction will get some exposure if posted here.

While being correct in some other technical aspects, I have also committed a major error. While my initial Hebrew instructor and mentor, Robert Allon, provided me with the correct information, I did not receive it as presented.

The following excerpt from "His Name is One" by Jeff A. Benner, clearly rectifies my misunderstanding, and presents the correct approach to understanding the difference between the Hebrew and English languages.

For the confusion I created over this issue I offer my apologizes.

-----------------------------

Abstract vs. concrete thought:

We have previously discussed the differences between the modern Western thinkers method of describing something compared to the ancient Hebrew Eastern thinker. Here we will look at another major difference between the two which impacts how we read the Biblical text.

------------
Insert - referenced discussion comment

One of the major differences between our Western culture and the Eastern culture of the ancient Hebrews is how someone or something is described. The Hebrew was not so concerned with the appearance of someone or something, as he was with its function. A Western mind would describe a common pencil according to its appearance, something like; “it is yellow and about eight inches long.” An Eastern mind describes the same pencil according to its function, something like; “I write and erase words with it.” Notice that the Eastern description uses the verbs “write” and “erase,” while the Western description uses the adjectives “yellow” and “long.” Because of Hebrew’s form of functional descriptions, verbs are used much more frequently then adjectives in the Bible.

End insert
------------

The Eastern mind views the world through concrete thought that is expressed in ways that can be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard. An example of this can be found in Psalms 1:3 where the author expresses his thoughts in such concrete terms as; tree, streams of water, fruit, leaf and wither.

“He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season, and whose leaf does not wither.” (NIV)

The Western mind views the world through abstract thought that is expressed in ways that cannot be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard. Examples of Abstract thought can be found in Psalms 103:8;

“The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.” (NIV)

The words compassion, grace, anger and love are all abstract words, ideas that cannot be experienced by the senses. Why do we find these abstract words in a passage from concrete thinking Hebrews? Actually, these are abstract English words used to translate the original Hebrew concrete words. The translators will often substitute a concrete word for an abstract word because the original Hebrew concrete imagery would make no sense when literally translated into English.

Hey, I've talked with Jeff Benner via e-mail! He and his wife are very nice people!!!!

Excellent post. This is how I have understood the difference. Not much different than the Spanish language.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Hey, I've talked with Jeff Benner via e-mail! He and his wife are very nice people!!!!

Excellent post. This is how I have understood the difference. Not much different than the Spanish language.

Excellent!

I just found his site today and found much of what I have been teaching there - but in a more complete and polished (organized) format. I also found a number of areas that I still need to study and learn! Mercy! Including his notes on language differences that led to my "correction".

I just listened to one of his audio presentations. He really is good! I also downloaded his e-books. As I can afford the small individual costs, I will order all of the published editions. I'll have to ask Robert Allon if he knows Jeff Benner.

Another site I found that has some good Hebrew grammar, Toward Reading & Understanding Biblical Hebrew (PDF) by Frederic Clarke Putnam - I have the 6 segments of the download book: http://fredputnam.org/?q=taxonomy/term/4

And, an other site that contain this and other references is

http://scrollandscreen.com/biblestud...rewgrammar.htm

and

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/bookstore/e-books.html

While I have yet to read all these publications for myself, I have read some and reviewed others. It would seem that Mr. Jeff Benner has developed an excellent language course in Hebrew. His work is based on a solid linguistic credentials and a creditable academic foundation.

I also recommend visiting Robert Allon Ministries, http://www.allon.org/index.htm

He has developed a wonderful translation methodology for folks like me, who are “language challenged”. LOLOL

A word of caution: In addition to becoming more familiar with an original language and gaining a richness of the scriptures often missed in reading in English only, it will challenge a number of things you have been taught by religious leaders. Doctrinal and theological errors that are a result of a lack of knowledge, not of an intent to deceive. Yet, when “knowledge” gained from acquiring an education is discouraged, then uncorrected error not only remains, it becomes a protected belief system and is passed on to another generation.

This is an adventure for the spiritually courageous and not the faint of heart.

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For all you kids out there - Go for it!

Shalom Aleichem

[Pressing-On]

Thanks for all of the links!

Can't agree with you more on Jeff Benner. He is very articulate and thorough. He's also very careful to draw a conclusion on any text.

Have you been to his website? He has a chat room. I'm a member there, but I haven't posted in a long time. I think Sabellius is also a member. Just noticed the Chat room is closed until April 2009.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Have you been to his website? He has a chat room. I'm a member there, but I haven't posted in a long time. I think Sabellius is also a member. Just noticed the Chat room is closed until April 2009.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/

Today was my first time there! I have been missing out. Ouch!

I will check out the chat room - sign up.

The url? I have some more on my site - I'll copy them over to here for those who are interested in learning a little more about the Hebrew roots of the Christian faith.

Or, folks can visit hashaliach.com/