Does God appoint leaders?

[Esaias]

This is a public poll:

Does God put leaders into their position of authority?

[votivesoul]

Church, civic, all of the above???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Church, civic, all of the above???

From local school janitor to pope and everything in between.

[Scott Pitta]

In my limited experience, God only appoints presidents when the person bring up the subject likes the sitting president.

If they do not like the president, this idea is seldom brought up.

To me, it is a shallow theological sales pitch.

This is not intended to be an insult to Esaias. We are discussing the idea in general.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

In my limited experience, God only appoints presidents when the person bring up the subject likes the sitting president.

If they do not like the president, this idea is seldom brought up.

To me, it is a shallow theological sales pitch.

This is not intended to be an insult to Esaias. We are discussing the idea in general.

I haven't liked any president since Reagan, so that is not in play here.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From local school janitor to pope and everything in between.

Got it. I voted Yes, but not all.

[Amanah]

All powers that be are ordained of God, so God is the source of authority.

Legitimate authority will not violate God's Laws.

Where authority does violate the Laws of God it should not be obeyed.

We are to obey our governing authorities up to the point where they are in agreement with Gods Law.

When governing authority is so vile that it contradicts God's law, we are to disobey and possibly overthrow it.

The American revolution justified itself in the belief that tyranny violated the law of God.

When Hitler became the leader of the German Church, the church replaced the cross with the swastika, the bible with National Socialism, and love with hate. Bonhoeffer broke from the German Church and started the Confessing Church and they began to speak out against the atrocities of the State and State Church. Bonhoeffer eventually came to the conclusion that Hitler was so evil that he should be assassinated. Overall, the *church* fell in line with National Socialism.

So, humanity appoints leaders to authority, and whether authority is legitimate or not depends on if humanity and the appointed authority is submitted to God.

Samuel was a prophet of God, he appointed David as King per God's direction, therefore David was Legitimate authority under God.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Amanah

All powers that be are ordained of God, so God is the source of authority.

Legitimate authority will not violate God's Laws.

Where authority does violate the Laws of God it should not be obeyed.

We are to obey our governing authorities up to the point where they are in agreement with Gods Law.

When governing authority is so vile that it contradicts God's law, we are to disobey and possibly overthrow it.

The American revolution justified itself in the belief that tyranny violated the law of God.

When Hitler became the leader of the German Church, the church replaced the cross with the swastika, the bible with National Socialism, and love with hate. Bonhoeffer broke from the German Church and started the Confessing Church and they began to speak out against the atrocities of the State and State Church. Bonhoeffer eventually came to the conclusion that Hitler was so evil that he should be assassinated. Overall, the *church* fell in line with National Socialism.

So, humanity appoints leaders to authority, and whether authority is legitimate or not depends on if humanity and the appointed authority is submitted to God.

Samuel was a prophet of God, he appointed David as King per God's direction, therefore David was Legitimate authority under God.

Actually, the emphasis on the "Reich Church" was short lived. By the end of the war, non-Germans made up the majority of SS members, and there were Christian chaplains from many faiths also serving in the SS, conducting religious ceremonies for SS members all over Europe.

Another consideration, why couldn't God have raised up Hitler, as he raised up pagan leaders in the Old Testament, to bring judgment on the Jews? There was more than one "Jewish Holocaust" in the Old Testament, all orchestrated by an angry God.

[Amanah]

The German church, under Hitler's orders, was excommunicating Jewish Christian Pastors and church members, and sending anyone who stood up for them to concentration camps.

Hitler was put into power by humanity, or human government.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I haven't liked any president since Reagan, so that is not in play here.

my former Pastor, upon Reagan's election, said from the pulpit *Reagan will be our last good president*